Comments on: Don’t trust a word Massa says http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645 Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:12:28 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1 hourly 1 By: BlackOut http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=4#comment-51678 BlackOut Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:04:23 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51678 One other thing, just to be clear Mr. Oli, I did not use the googler to search for goat videos. One other thing, just to be clear Mr. Oli, I did not use the googler to search for goat videos.

]]> By: BlackOut http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=4#comment-51677 BlackOut Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:02:33 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51677 Ravi, as much as I spar with Mr. G. Stone, I highly doubt he would put himself inside a goat. Maybe this is acceptable in your country, Now that you have acclimated to the US I'd discourage you from doing the same. Ravi, as much as I spar with Mr. G. Stone, I highly doubt he would put himself inside a goat. Maybe this is acceptable in your country, Now that you have acclimated to the US I’d discourage you from doing the same.

]]> By: Ravi Oli http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=4#comment-51675 Ravi Oli Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:52:47 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51675 Mr. BlackOut, this video very much reminds Ravi of Mr. Bear Grylls of the Man Vs. Wild show. In an episode from Scotland he takes a dead sheep and creates a "Sheeping Bag". If indeed this is Mr. G. Stone playing the Goat in the video, I hold him in the highest esteem as an artist with great sensibilities and fine improvisational skills. Bravo, I say! Mr. BlackOut, this video very much reminds Ravi of Mr. Bear Grylls of the Man Vs. Wild show. In an episode from Scotland he takes a dead sheep and creates a “Sheeping Bag”. If indeed this is Mr. G. Stone playing the Goat in the video, I hold him in the highest esteem as an artist with great sensibilities and fine improvisational skills. Bravo, I say!

]]> By: BlackOut http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51662 BlackOut Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:01:39 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51662 He sure does a job blowing that goat. :) He sure does a job blowing that goat. :)

]]> By: edmundburkenator http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51654 edmundburkenator Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:18:19 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51654 That disturbed me. That disturbed me.

]]> By: BlackOut http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51624 BlackOut Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:18:42 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51624 OK Stoner, this isn't you is it? I mean the goat thing maybe going to far. . http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6fb_1268375592 OK Stoner, this isn’t you is it? I mean the goat thing maybe going to far.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6fb_1268375592

]]> By: G. Stone http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51617 G. Stone Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:46:17 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51617 Don't blame it on the whiskey. Obama is too smart to know that he can take over in one clean swoop. he wants a single payer system, he wants a govt takeover. he has said it in public and numerous occasions. I an not going to waste my time arguing your or others denial of his real position. Go check the video tapes. the real issue is he knows this bill over a period of time ( again he has admitted this approach in interviews ) will squeeze out private insurers ( yes, cronie capitolists have signed on for short term gain, yes there is some corporate welfare, no shit, this is how they sucker these fools to play , further they do wield the power of the fed govt to make their lives diffecult if they don't play ) and leave the feds as the only player in the game. This is the end game. This is the intent pure and simple. The plan(s) do not create overnight a single payer system. Don’t blame it on the whiskey.

Obama is too smart to know that he can take over in one clean swoop. he wants a single payer system, he wants a govt takeover. he has said it in public and numerous occasions. I an not going to waste my time arguing your or others denial of his real position. Go check the video tapes.
the real issue is he knows this bill over a period of time ( again he has admitted this approach in interviews ) will squeeze out private insurers
( yes, cronie capitolists have signed on for short term gain, yes there is some corporate welfare, no shit, this is how they sucker these fools to play , further they do wield the power of the fed govt to make their lives diffecult if they don’t play ) and leave the feds as the only player in the game. This is the end game. This is the intent pure and simple. The plan(s) do not create overnight a single payer system.

]]> By: Dan http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51572 Dan Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:30:48 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51572 G. Stone, I don't see any trend lines on any polling data (including that which Cato linked to) which supports the assertion that Obama's popularity is "dropping like a rock". But even if that were true I am absolutely certain that it would not be because he "insists on a massive takeover of over 1/6 of the economy". I am absolutely certain of this because no such thing has been proposed. It exists only in the fevered imagination of extreme Republican partisans and the tea people. . If there had been a proposal to establish a National Health Service along the lines of what they have in the United Kingdom (which I would not favor) then I suppose it might be fair to characterize that as the government taking over approximately 1/6 of the economy. But no such proposal has even been discussed at any point in this debate. Hell, when Senator Baucus held the earliest hearings on health care reform (months before Dick Armey invented the tea party) folks who advocated for that and those who advocated for a single payer system (like MediCare) weren't even allowed in the room. Anything that could be remotely construed as a government takeover has never been on the table. Ever. . I tend to agree with Cato that this bill is, to a very large extent, a huge corporate welfare bill. Both parties being pretty much whores for their corporate masters, this is hardly surprising. It is really only a matter of degree. But being slightly less whorish than the Republicans is hardly a ringing endorsement for the Democrats. . I certainly won't disagree that the mechanics of moving this bill through Congress was a major clusterfuck. Hard to imagine incurring that must political cost while making so little forward progress. If they have whiskey in heaven (and I'm sure they do) Lyndon Johnson has probably been drunk for the better part of the last year. It's been painful trying to watch this legislative train wreck sober. . The first mistake was in letting the Republicans con them into believing that any of them EVER had any intention of negotiating in good faith. One need only review the completely contradictory positions taken by Republicans at different points in the last year and their silly claims that things that they themselves had earlier proposed or fully supported are unconstitutional to get a clear picture of their cynicism. . They made a calculation early on that they could get a political advantage from dilatory tactics and complete obstruction of the Senate's business. The people be damned. They have calculated that if they can succeed in blocking any bill they will reap a benefit at the polls. It remains to be seen if they can succeed in blocking it or if they will benefit at the polls for having been so totally obstructionist. . What is undeniable is that the Democrats should have been quicker to open their eyes to Republican bad faith. They wasted months trying to get Republican cooperation and offering compromises to Republicans when the Republicans never had any intention of giving them a single vote no matter what they did. Had they recognized the Republicans for what they are up front a better bill would likely have been produced and it would have been passed months ago. . Politically this has been a winner for the Republicans at this point. Whether that will carry through to November is an open question. You repeat the party line that the public doesn't support the bill. And when you present it as a big scary concept complete with the months long front row seat to the sausage making it doesn't poll a majority. But it doesn't lack support to the degree you so flippantly say. And when you poll people about most of the individual provisions they have overwhelming support. So, campaigning for repeal of a prohibition on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, for instance, may not be the brilliant strategy Mitch McConnell thinks it is. . Anyway, I think you have it backwards. You say, "Ram it through and get rejected by the American people, fail to pass it and get rejected by their own leftist base." Failing to pass even this flawed bill is much more likely to get them rejected by the voters. That's why Eric Cantor and his buddies are so "concerned" for the Democrats if they make the "mistake" of passing the bill the Republicans are desperately trying to obstruct. You have it wrong on the other score too. Passing this bill doesn't please the liberal base. They hate this bill. They thought they had elected a liberal president. They are bitterly disappointed that he is not. . Too long a comment. Sorry. That's what happens when you mix whiskey with typing blog comments. G. Stone, I don’t see any trend lines on any polling data (including that which Cato linked to) which supports the assertion that Obama’s popularity is “dropping like a rock”. But even if that were true I am absolutely certain that it would not be because he “insists on a massive takeover of over 1/6 of the economy”. I am absolutely certain of this because no such thing has been proposed. It exists only in the fevered imagination of extreme Republican partisans and the tea people.
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If there had been a proposal to establish a National Health Service along the lines of what they have in the United Kingdom (which I would not favor) then I suppose it might be fair to characterize that as the government taking over approximately 1/6 of the economy. But no such proposal has even been discussed at any point in this debate. Hell, when Senator Baucus held the earliest hearings on health care reform (months before Dick Armey invented the tea party) folks who advocated for that and those who advocated for a single payer system (like MediCare) weren’t even allowed in the room. Anything that could be remotely construed as a government takeover has never been on the table. Ever.
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I tend to agree with Cato that this bill is, to a very large extent, a huge corporate welfare bill. Both parties being pretty much whores for their corporate masters, this is hardly surprising. It is really only a matter of degree. But being slightly less whorish than the Republicans is hardly a ringing endorsement for the Democrats.
.
I certainly won’t disagree that the mechanics of moving this bill through Congress was a major clusterfuck. Hard to imagine incurring that must political cost while making so little forward progress. If they have whiskey in heaven (and I’m sure they do) Lyndon Johnson has probably been drunk for the better part of the last year. It’s been painful trying to watch this legislative train wreck sober.
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The first mistake was in letting the Republicans con them into believing that any of them EVER had any intention of negotiating in good faith. One need only review the completely contradictory positions taken by Republicans at different points in the last year and their silly claims that things that they themselves had earlier proposed or fully supported are unconstitutional to get a clear picture of their cynicism.
.
They made a calculation early on that they could get a political advantage from dilatory tactics and complete obstruction of the Senate’s business. The people be damned. They have calculated that if they can succeed in blocking any bill they will reap a benefit at the polls. It remains to be seen if they can succeed in blocking it or if they will benefit at the polls for having been so totally obstructionist.
.
What is undeniable is that the Democrats should have been quicker to open their eyes to Republican bad faith. They wasted months trying to get Republican cooperation and offering compromises to Republicans when the Republicans never had any intention of giving them a single vote no matter what they did. Had they recognized the Republicans for what they are up front a better bill would likely have been produced and it would have been passed months ago.
.
Politically this has been a winner for the Republicans at this point. Whether that will carry through to November is an open question. You repeat the party line that the public doesn’t support the bill. And when you present it as a big scary concept complete with the months long front row seat to the sausage making it doesn’t poll a majority. But it doesn’t lack support to the degree you so flippantly say. And when you poll people about most of the individual provisions they have overwhelming support. So, campaigning for repeal of a prohibition on denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, for instance, may not be the brilliant strategy Mitch McConnell thinks it is.
.
Anyway, I think you have it backwards. You say, “Ram it through and get rejected by the American people, fail to pass it and get rejected by their own leftist base.” Failing to pass even this flawed bill is much more likely to get them rejected by the voters. That’s why Eric Cantor and his buddies are so “concerned” for the Democrats if they make the “mistake” of passing the bill the Republicans are desperately trying to obstruct. You have it wrong on the other score too. Passing this bill doesn’t please the liberal base. They hate this bill. They thought they had elected a liberal president. They are bitterly disappointed that he is not.
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Too long a comment. Sorry. That’s what happens when you mix whiskey with typing blog comments.

]]> By: Cato the Elder http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51569 Cato the Elder Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:07:48 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51569 "(I would love to read a post on alternatives to TARP by Cato sometime). " * Don't hold your breath. I already piss on too many parades in the blogosphere without describing just how ugly pile of shit "B" would have been. * However, the HC legislation, as written, is one of the largest corporate welfare bills ever to disgrace the halls of congress, and perhaps you will see a post about that quite soon. “(I would love to read a post on alternatives to TARP by Cato sometime). ”
*
Don’t hold your breath. I already piss on too many parades in the blogosphere without describing just how ugly pile of shit “B” would have been.
*
However, the HC legislation, as written, is one of the largest corporate welfare bills ever to disgrace the halls of congress, and perhaps you will see a post about that quite soon.

]]> By: edmundburkenator http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645&cpage=3#comment-51556 edmundburkenator Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:53:41 +0000 http://www.tooconservative.com/?p=6645#comment-51556 First, Ravi, I will take note of your deep disdain for this term and not use it again. Second, I will quote a famous Italian in your honor: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” . This is why I don't care much for the HCB, G. There are too many moving parts in it. Now, do I think it's the end of civilization (as you no doubt believe)? No. Is the alternative better? Likely not. I think it's a close call and I confess I don't know enough about all of the individual details to know if the gestalt of the thing will work. No one does. . That's why you can't say it won't work as intended and I can't say it will. This kind of sweeping change goes against my grain. Are there times when the circumstances call for sweeping action? Yes. My preference would be to work to mitigate those instances. . But we don't do that. So we find ourselves facing a choice between sweeping change or sweeping change (in 10 to 15 years). It sucks. This bill sucks. Our politicians suck. The parties suck (especially the once sane Republican Party which is sorely lacking in deep thinkers). . The one sweeping change that I wish had happened (through what would have been inaction on the administration's part) would have been to let the economic fire that he inherited take more firms out -- I think he chose to be "Japan" instead of "unknown". The safer choice I suppose (I would love to read a post on alternatives to TARP by Cato sometime). But again, he was faced with a choice between pile of shit A or pile of shit B, which is where we are on HC. . Apologies in advance for typos. It's been a long day. First, Ravi, I will take note of your deep disdain for this term and not use it again. Second, I will quote a famous Italian in your honor: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
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This is why I don’t care much for the HCB, G. There are too many moving parts in it. Now, do I think it’s the end of civilization (as you no doubt believe)? No. Is the alternative better? Likely not. I think it’s a close call and I confess I don’t know enough about all of the individual details to know if the gestalt of the thing will work. No one does.
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That’s why you can’t say it won’t work as intended and I can’t say it will. This kind of sweeping change goes against my grain. Are there times when the circumstances call for sweeping action? Yes. My preference would be to work to mitigate those instances.
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But we don’t do that. So we find ourselves facing a choice between sweeping change or sweeping change (in 10 to 15 years). It sucks. This bill sucks. Our politicians suck. The parties suck (especially the once sane Republican Party which is sorely lacking in deep thinkers).
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The one sweeping change that I wish had happened (through what would have been inaction on the administration’s part) would have been to let the economic fire that he inherited take more firms out — I think he chose to be “Japan” instead of “unknown”. The safer choice I suppose (I would love to read a post on alternatives to TARP by Cato sometime). But again, he was faced with a choice between pile of shit A or pile of shit B, which is where we are on HC.
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Apologies in advance for typos. It’s been a long day.

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