The time of governmental change is upon us in Loudoun County. We go from a Republican dominated board to a Democratic led board. This is absolutely a result of a series of self-inflicted political wounds by the outgoing Republican majority. The single biggest issue to be dealt with by this new board will be the school budget, since it is three quarters of the overall county budget and they want to to keep growing their budget at twice the rate of growth plusa inflation. The land use issue should pretty much handle itself with the downturn in the housing market and the glut of already approved units.
Use the comments to put forth your ideas for the new board and discuss what it will look like in terms of structure and attitude. I do believe there will be a newfound respect for the citizens, and that will be the biggest positive change. However, their potential for unrestrained spending “for the children” worries me to death. We all need to stay vigilant and involved.
UPDATE:Â WaPo article up with some interesting quotes from the old and the new (link here).Â
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Dec 21st by Loudoun Insider
This debate about the budget (especially schools) needs to be kept alive in a very strong way. Does not matter if you can afford a tax raise there are many in this county hurting right now. I know Miller and Waters will do everything in their power to kept the school school budget in check and taxes as low as possible. But there are others on the new board that are unknowns in this battle and one I am really afraid will be very loose with our money. Hopefully I am wrong and they all can keep things in check. Of course the school board was mostly re-elected so they might think they have a mandate to spend spend spend. We all want good schools but within reason. I know I graduated from about an 1500 pupil school in Dallas with large classes and almost my entire class went to college. We lived in a fairly wealthy part of Dallas and part of my school was extremely wealthy (my family was not wealthy by any means
) My point is they did not shower this school with tons of money and a lot of those wealthy families sent their kids to public school back then NOT private.
So it does not take zillions of dollars to give kids a great education. It is all about the students experience and that is priceless!!!!!
Lee j
Lee j
on December 21st, 2007Drastically higher taxes, if that is how it turns out, is not “newfound respect for the citizens.” My taxes rose dramatically during a period of Republican leadership due to runaway growth, and I can only imagine them rising at least as much under the Democrats due to runaway spending and what appears will be at least a moderately prolonged period of reduction of (theoretical) property values.
I am glad growth will be curbed, but if we are paying even higher taxes and still sitting in traffic in four years, I am not going to be happy, even if Susan Buckley undoubtedly is a nicer person than Mick Staton.
Former LCRC Member
on December 21st, 2007I wouldn’t be so sure about Waters keeping taxes low. She’s the one who, for political expediency and re-election, decided that our tax dollars should pay for services currently being provided by a charity at no expense to the taxpayer.
I’ve spoken to some of the Supervisors about the School Budget. They like to point out that they can’t tell the School Board what to cut. They just approve a budget. Historically, when the BoS has talked about cutting money from the budget, Hatrick decries it and declares that all sports will be cut, electricity turned off, etc., in order to enrage parents. He doesn’t mention cutting the pay raises from 9% to 4%.
I’ve told these folks that what the BoS can do is RECOMMEND areas where the budget can be cut and chop of Hatrick’s tricks at the knees.
How big are the pay raises this year? How many unnecessary non-teaching staff are in our schools? When I visit them, I am AMAZED at how many staff they have falling all over each other. Maybe Hatrick’s car allowance could be removed.
With some WORK, I’m sure a whole lot can be removed from this budget.
Hatrick is completely unapologetic, to the point of arrogant, about his budget. You see, if you want good schools you have to pay for it, we are the richest county, so we need to shut up and give him what he wants.
If he can’t manage without continuous unprecedented increases in the budget, we need to get another Superintendent of Schools.
And yes, I have three kids in the school system.
vacliff
on December 21st, 2007While I have no children, the school budget issue affects every landowver in the County. My educational background is interesting-in that I attended a private school first through 12 [no public funds] while my parents still paid for schools via taxes, a double whammy. However, the private school thing was their choice [definitely not mine!]. Mt graduating class contained a grand total of 24 students!
Yes, we pay a great deal in taxes to fund schools. That’s the hand we’re dealt from Richmond unfortunately. Our schools are above average and we should strive to maintain that record. I grumble because I pay about $7,000 a year in taxes on my home, much of which goes to schools, which I do not use. But that’s the way things are.
Some things could be considered to reduce school expenditures. Larger schools with more students would allow for fewer schools being needed-the savings in land and infrastructure there could be substantial. Efficient lighting, turning off lights, less lights on at night in parking lots: other ways to save. Parents volunteering janitorial services at night: this was done at the school I attended.
Even little things can help. A story I heard long ago can illustrate: an airline is looking to cut costs. One employee suggests not putting the decorative leaf of lettuce on the food tray. Cutting out this one lettuce leaf saved the airline MILLIONS each year. It seemed like nothing much, but the net result was large. [Yes, it was a LONG time ago as fellow flyers can attest!]
The School Board should vet ideas not only from the public but from within on how to save. Listen intently, investigate what looks promising, and do it honestly, not just for show.
oblivibear
on December 21st, 2007I remember reading that every Loudoun High School was going to have a entire weather detecting system installed. Basically, so the athletic department can better determine what to do about cancelling games. I can’t remember the price – just remember I gasped.
How about checking the national weather website – it’s right there at Sterling?
IsThisNecessary
on December 21st, 2007Here is one idea on cutting the school budget. Loudoun builds high schools for 1200 student capacity. Fairfax generally builds for 2000 student capacity. First class high schools, no matter what size, require certain amenities labs, auditoriums, gyms, fields, etc. If Hatrick were forced to adopt the 2000 student model, that would require far fewer schools and school sites. 2000 student schools are not megaschools, esp in an area like NoVA.
We need to be careful about cutting programs which are investments – i.e. technology and foreign language curriculum. We live in a high tech area and an area near a major international airport. Having a workforce trained in these subjects is necessary for attracting businesses to Loudoun. Another cost control idea is to impose a hard cap on all spending equal to rate of population growth plus inflation. Any department which wants to grow faster than that must be matched by equivalent decrease in another departments budget.
Loudoun must marry cost controls with revenue increases. There is limited gain available from increasing the property tax rate in a depressed residential market. And clearly building more homes is no way out of this problem. The answer is to attract more businesses to Loudoun. One immediate answer is prompt approval of the HCA Hospital in Dulles South. Another alternative is to position the Loudoun Country Parkway, from Rt. 7 to Rt. 50 as a destination business district parallel to Rt. 28. Many of the businesses in Reston, Herndon, Fair Oaks, and Tysons draw a large percentage of their workers from Loudoun. Give them alternatives that are closer to the airport and give them an additional 1-2 hours of productive employee time per day (i.e. not wasted in traffic on Rt. 50 or the Toll Road). Go to any major city (LA, Chicago, Dallas, etc) you will find businesses ringing the airport. Only in STDS era Loudoun did you find a push for residential development at the end of runways.
This BOS may also need to also consider opening up the transition area to business campus development (like Fair Oaks). Some of the more extremist PEC types are against any dirt turning. That position is as wrong as the STDS leave no soil under turned position we just rejected.
Tom Conway
on December 21st, 2007Tom, the HCA Hospital is proposed for Broadlands not Dulles South.
BlackOut
on December 21st, 2007There will be temptation for the slow-and-no-growthers to re-institute a radical agenda of 25- and 50-acre zoning. They now have puppets on this board — notably, Kurtz, Burton, York, McGimsey, Buckley and Burk. Even Lori Waters is a tool for the PEC, though she’s more independent. These new supervisors will be tempted to assuage their political base, which wants to eliminate ALL residential development, and possibly new roads like these Route 9 and 15 bypass alternatives. Republicans will be sidelined, and same with property rights advocates and developers. I just don’t see the slow-growth groups going moderate on this issue. Regarding taxes and schools, I really don’t see any of these folks sitting there and spending the time to look at line-item expenditures for cuts. Like most Democrats, they will do what the staff wants and soak the rest of us for the deficit. As for HCA, I think they still will have an uphill battle to build in Loudoun because LH has so much political firepower behind them. When the economy sours, and when people tire of tax increases, Loudoun County will look to the GOP for change; I just hope it’s a NEW brand of candidate in 2011.
LOUDOUN RABBLE ROUSER
on December 21st, 2007Well I have put a lot of thought into what it would take to get another AOL or MCI like during their good days.
I don’t know if we will get much more of anything of that significance that will truly help the tax situation in the short term or even in the foreseeable future.
It looks like pretty grim for business growth for awhile unless it is tied to the feds somehow and even there it looks like cut backs.
Why??? we have the second worse traffic in the nation
even with home prices dropping we still don’t have much affordable housing. Those two things is killing the golden goose. And with the prospect of much higher taxes that could be the nail in the coffin for this group of supervisors to do much of anything of any significance during their term.
Waxpool with the death of Kincora will get much much worse since who is going to fund the gloucester vital link to nokes?????? Nobody has put any decent or serious thought to what happens to the roads as Moorefield and loudoun station and all the other mega developments start happening the next four years. I have seen the proposed road system there and it sucks.
It will never handle the traffic that is going to be generated by those already approved projects. The greenway with it’s astronomical toll system will be useless and the toll plaza across the main entrance is another hinderence to traffic flow. Didn’t anyone learn from these across the road toll plaza’a in other parts of the country were always a problem to traffic flow. In new jersey the garden state parkway has always been a nightmare because of them yet the NJ turnpike without them flows pretty good. Hellooooo.
I think it is going to be a grim four years for Loudoun.
I hope I am wrong but I don’t see much that makes me think otherwise. If I was a large corporation or a small one would I move my company here under the present conditions ??? Hell no I would not only if I had a government contract would any even consider it..
Makes you wonder what do we have to offer here for business’s of any magnitude to consider moving here????
Lee j
Lee j
on December 21st, 2007Why not have parents pay for kids that use the bus system and extra ciricular activities? That way it is only those that use that have to pay. I know a very prominant school system in the northeast that does.
For those of you that don’t have children in the system take a look inside some of Loudouns HS they are top notch and I’m not sure all of it is necessary. Hatrick has created a monster
momof2
on December 21st, 2007Lee j,
I’ve been promoting combining public community functions with schools buildings for years which is similar to the European model. For instance, the public library could be at a high school–it can be designed in such a way that the rest of the school can be closed off during non-school hours. For multiple high schools in close proximity to each other, select one for the public library function and allow the other high schools to have branches. There is no reason to build stand alone libraries except for the needs of the status quo who want to keep building their empires.
There are other ideas but let’s spoon feed the School Board and the County estabulary
Jose Kinusee
on December 21st, 2007Good Lord Lee j, you make Loudoun sound like some kind of backwater in Arkansas.
The easiest job in the county has been in economic development for the last eight years. Time to earn some of that money Larry.
Oh and Loudoun Rabble Rouser, DPM called. She would like her talking points back.
“Tool”, “puppets”? Pot, meet kettle.
Do you ever get tired of the partisanship?
edmundburkenator
on December 21st, 2007Jose that is an excellent idea. I would like to hear more about the European model.
You are right about spoon feeding these ideas to the school board. Only problem is hatrick who has taken on the role of dictator and if you don’t he uses scare tactics that the kids will suffer. You know what maybe the kids have been too pampered. And they are calling kids in their twenties and even their thirties the boomerang generation they go to college then back home, move out then move back in move out then back home. I am also guilty of pampering my kids too much also. Getting good grades is easy when you have every thing handed to you on a silver platter. The hard part are the kids prepared to handle everyday life without mom and dad and a coddling school system after they have left.
Lee j
Lee j
on December 21st, 2007I think Hatrick should be told to find major efficiencies in the school budget, or maybe we need to find someone who can. It’s not that hard. An efficiency idiot could find $100M.
Sanity
on December 21st, 2007edmundburkenator didn’t mean to sound that way, but what big corporation is beating our doors down to move here. We have janella farms saying they probably would not of built here if they would of known how bad the traffic and housing was going to get. AOL probably our biggest brand name will be almost history in a few years. MCI now verizon, well their beautiful campus is very very empty and they don’t seem to be wanting to do much expansion. We have relied on the government for most of our economic vitality one way or another. Orbital one of our major bright spots is all about government contracts. Solve regional transportation and potential high taxes and build some economical housing and we will get back on track. Yes we will survive but it would be much much better to survive with these problems solved. I don’t commute or should I say I commute from my bedroom to my library and my employees so to speak are all over the world. My clients I design homes for a very wealthy, and my kids are in college so in a way I live the dream life in Loudoun. But that is not enough for me I want utopia where we have a regional road system that all look like the George Washington parkway.
Every development is stunning with transitions between types of development done seamlessly and looks beautiful no more buildings several feet off the road with only a few twigs for landscaping. No more seas of parking, but parking incorporated in hidden garages, leaving more green space. Box stores that are actually built in a way that they don’t look like this big ugly wart. A school system that actually thinks about how to spend our money wisely instead of throwing money at it. Innovation in the school system with thinking outside the box before they throw our money away. This may sound too idealistic but other parts of this country and the world are doing exactly what I am saying. And finally “BY Right” is my most hated saying in this county.
Lee j
Lee j
on December 21st, 2007LRR,
HCA is number 84 on the Fortune 500. It was the outgoing Board that couldn’t pull that one in to Loudoun. In fact, they almost totally screwed it up for ever.
Luckily HCA is still around, and I fully expect that the new board is going to make them feel extremely welcome. Loudoun will be fortune to have true health care competition introduced to our community. It is years overdue.
BlackOut
on December 21st, 2007I don’t know enough about the BRMC debate to comment specifically, but we definitely need the competition to INOVA.
The Dems spoke again and again about how great their joint Board of Supervisors – School Board Committee would be, so let’s hope they make some real progress there. However, as many commenters have pointed out, this is pretty much the same School Board that has let Hatrick drive the bus into the budgetary stratosphere. I’m not too hopeful.
Loudoun Insider
on December 21st, 2007Rabble rouser…”Republicans will be sidelined, and same with property rights advocates and developers”.
THANK GOD.
That’s EXACTLY the plan.
STOP all development until there is ACTUALLY a demand for housing. The market for houses is finished for an undetermined length of time out here.
MAYBE we begin to catch up to the massive amount of services and infrastructure costs that they demand.
Maybe we don’t. But it won’t be the NEW board’s fault.
Four former Supervisors are leaving the county with a HUGE shortfall due in most part to their build out and the new homes that need that money.
As for property rights….At exactly what point is their right to sell in smaller, more expensive lots to achieve maximum profit, while sending the county taxpayers into poverty, fair on any level? When we have to subsidize the practice in tax increases, maybe it ought to be curbed.
And overlook the fact that the democrats recently put in place are much more fiscally conservative than the republicans who preceeded them. Burk and Buckley are my only concerns.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on December 21st, 2007So Hatrick is the best politician in the county. Bar none. He’s won the battle of public opinion. He bluffs, bullies, cajoles and threatens his way to anything the hell he wants. Antiquated building plans? Oh, here’s another $50M. Outrageous spending on special education needs? Here’s another $20M. Prime facilities at each school? Let us write you another check. Where in the hell is anyone with the smarts to put him into a negotiating position? Maybe on the next board?
I’m all for funding schools and managing the schools for exccellence. Within reason. Hatrick has gone unchecked. Agree with him or not, he’s been the true Chairman of the Board for the past 10 years.
And with the monster amount of building required, he’s had a huge wave to ride with little chance of falling off his board.
Don’t approve massive rezonings, and the Schools Empire does not grow at it’s current rate. That’s simple enough that even Snowflake should have figured it out.
Blaze N. Saddles
on December 21st, 2007LI, that joint board (school/BOS) seems to me to be the ray of light in the coming storm.
I don’t know what the limitations are in terms of creating this group — I would like to see the addition of someone from outside of both groups appointed that have independence, sharpened pencils and “on the ground” experience to vet Hatrick’s budget.
Lee, these failing businesses are the victim of bad business plans not local infrastructure deficits. I think AOLs eventual demise (this business has not made since for 15 years) may be an opportunity for another business that needs a turn-key campus. I’m not up to speed on HHMIs complaints, but I have to say, I never understood why they wanted to put that building there on 7.
Keep your Utopian vision alive. I’m with you there.
edmundburkenator
on December 21st, 2007I am a youth pastor in an Evangelical church.
The supreme court is ONE judge away from overturning Roe V. Wade.
**VERY IMPORTANT:
Huckabee probably cannot win in the general election. Romney has a very good shot at winning.
**IF ROMNEY IS ELECTED IT WILL BE OVERTURNED**
Romney will appoint a pro-lifer. Romney’s LDS values are identical to Evangelical values, differing theologies are irrelevant in the Oval Office.
I like Huckabee, really, but as Evangelicals it is our duty to make sure we nominate someone who can win.
BOTTOM LINE: A vote for Huckabee is a vote for Hillary or Obama. A vote against LIFE.
http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/why.php
ethan
on December 21st, 2007Hatrick has gone unchecked, and is clever to find ways to always pretty much get what he wants . WHY ???
Because the Board of Supervisors do NOT put the time,
research, and fact finding they need to take him on,
point by point. Each Supervisor should on January 1
appoint a resource, either a special advisory committee,
current aides, or something to START READING THE
SCHOOL BUDGET, find out where the spending is, the
reasonableness of the staffing, what kind of staffing,
what they are paid compared with other jurisdictions,
and then make Hatrick look like an idiot after the
BOS find out the facts. The leg work has to be done.
The BOS cannot just call a meeting and ask questions
with no intelligent factual information. The devil
is in the detail when it comes to budget formulation
and expenditures. Find out where the pockets of
slush money is being hidden in their line items in
the School Budget. Come to your School Budget meetings
with good facts. It’s just that plain and clear.
More time and effort needs to be devoted to evaluating
the school budget.
watcher
on December 21st, 2007Tom said,
“Loudoun builds high schools for 1200 student capacity.”
No Tom they build 1600 student high schools. I suggest that before we cry “cut this build that” we work to gain a better understanding of what is in the budgets (there are two after all) and what the current policies are that are being followed.
Eric the 1/2 a troll
on December 22nd, 2007Futhermore on the school size issue. If you want (effectively) bigger schools, you can immediately increase the size of not just new schools but ALL schools by 5-10 percent just by getting the school board to change one of Adamo’s and Hatrick’s calculations. With about 60,000 seats across the county, that is immediately about 3000-6000 new seats (or about 2 – 4 high schools) at no new cost.
With 4 new HS’s planned over the next 5 years, the 2000 student HS idea yields a maximum of 1600 new seats over five years (with a cooresponding increase in cost).
Then we get into the issue of having the need to fill a bigger school upon opening (let’s not forget the two 1/2 full high school debacle). The impact on the operating budget represented by unuse space far outstrips any savings you might garner through size increase.
1600 is plenty big and plenty of savings can be found in other areas.
Eric the 1/2 a troll
on December 22nd, 2007All I know is something must be done to control the school budget. It cannot continue to grow at its recent pace outstripping growth plus inflation. I’m all for a good education, but we need a little frugality here.
Loudoun Insider
on December 22nd, 2007Ethan the youth pastor,
Have you been hold up in a cave? The GOP is not going to win no matter who is nominated. The die is cast and unfortunately or not, Hillary will be our next president. The evangels will have a tough time if they keep messing with Caesar (lose tax exemptions, etc.)
Jose Kinusee
on December 22nd, 2007I did a check of the certificates of occupancy (residential) issued as of close of business yesterday for Loudoun residential units approved in the rezonong process from January 2004 through 2007.
The Grand Total: 482.
Now, I know that these rezonings will produce more school impacts later, but these rezoned houses will all have paid the $48,700 school capital facility proffer tax before the kids move in.
Bottom Line: we can’t blame the current school overcrowding on the outgoing Board and we can’t blame the upcoming tax hike we will see next Spring on the outgoing Board either because the school children impact on the LCPS system caused by the outgoing Board’s rezonings will not be there yet.
I offer this not to defend the current Board (that most certainly had its issues), but only to give direction to those seeking scapegoats.
George Fremont
on December 22nd, 2007Another thing to considered is the location of the schools.
Do we need a high school out by Purcellville or somewhare out there?? I personally believe we do. It is in fairness to the kids and time to have the schools as centrally located to where the majority of the students are that will attend the school. So the mega school has this downside of possibly long bus rides for the kids. I am not so sure the projected growth of Loudoun is a reasonable figure anymore. At least not for the next 5 years. Yes there will be some growth but at an much slower pace. Further where are all the extra kids going to school if we are so overcrowded at the moment. They are accommodated somehow.
I agree with “watcher” and eric and you are right we need an independent party to review the budget or as suggested each of our new supervisors need to set up an task force to review and look for the hidden stuff that is buried deep into this budget. I know in the building business extra money (potential hidden profit) is hidden in the subs and materials to look like that is what it is going to cost when in reality it is more potential profit. And it is very hard for the non professional and even the pros to separate that out . I am positive Hatrick has hidden money and burried money all over the place. He has been doing it so long and so clever at it nobody may be able to figure all this out accurately.
We must first start with an independent study immediately when the supervisors first meet in Jan of exactly just what is the true projected student population for the next 4 to 5 years under the present slow down. Believe me there is not going to be a huge increase in homes for a long long time no matter how many have already been approved.
THe school budget is the counties largest expenditure and deserves the that kind of attention to it from the new supervisors. I don’t want to hear what I have already heard from several new supervisors that they can’t tell hatrick how to spend the money. Well you certainly can make recommendations and you can certainly scrutinize the budget in minutia and make it very very public of what you find and how it should be spent. ANd what should be cut. Make it very very public and hatrick may be cut down a peg or two. Or he may even be shown right but I doubt it. We all should write our supervisors on this matter and we should send them something as a group. We got them elected and lets make sure they do the job WE ALL elected them for.
I think 10 foot is already mounting his horse and has his badge on. Here is a quote from him “Now, stand back and watch us open the MAIN CAN ‘o WHOOP ASS in the coming four years.(quoted from 10 feet tall and Bulletproof)
IO foot we are with you buddy
Lee j
Lee j
on December 22nd, 2007Well, they’re in! It looks like the time has passed for the old crew to call a special meeting. None of the vanquished showed at the swearing in of their replacements.
Here’s the new seating arrangement as laid out on the dais today (from left to right looking at the dais): Burton, Delgaudio, Kurtz, Miller, Buckley, York, McGimsey, Waters, Burk. Although not confirmed, it looks like Buckley will be the Vice Chairman.
Loudoun Insider
on December 22nd, 2007We need you Ed.
Lead us to the Promised Land.
Grapes
on December 22nd, 2007And they put Delguadio between the two who never want to sit beside him again?
Ethan…sorry, chap… but you won’t get far being THAT far off topic, because A.) those issues are left to the federal and state levels, while this thread is actually LOCAL POLITICS (look up the Dillon Rule) and B.)we’re pretty sure that as a one issue crusader, you and your kin have already dug their grave using that exact logic in the recent election.
I disagree, however, that Hillary Clinton will win anything. I know legions of Democrats who despise the woman. The REAL ammo has n’t even been taken out of the box, and it’s still dry….so when the smoke clears from her own side of the aisle, she’ll have to dispatch a whole new series of volleys.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on December 22nd, 2007LI,
So 10 ft cut off my rant about national politics, ie Hillary, when are you putting us something so I can continue it? I’m chafing at the bit.. . .
I wanted to simply mention that Hillary is a good United Methodist, main stream Protestant. She ain’t going to do anything to upset the abortion applecart.
Jose Kinusee
on December 22nd, 2007I heard York did the seating arrangements… I don’t know how he did it, but I don’t think it was out of a hat.
edmundburkenator
on December 22nd, 2007All right!
Stop whatcha doin’
’cause I’m about to ruin
the image and the style that ya used to…
Ol’ skool, but it captures what the new board’s message to the school budget should be…
Humpty
on December 23rd, 2007I am in the process of coming up with a new position here on where to build the new hospital now proposed in a bad location in the broadlands
Right now I like my evolving idea of putting the hospital between verizon and aol.
First is it has the potential of going a long ways to solve the waxpool problem by getting the hospital to build shellhorn to the sterling interchange. THe hospital is willing to build belmont ridge from Brambleton to the greenway but waxpool is in far more dire need of solving at the moment. win win and many birds killed with one shot.
It allows the hospital to expand and plenty of room for doctor offices and even the potential to become a regional trauma center if so desired in the future.
No residential around it not even close.
Already in an noise zone from the airport
It has a more central location and easier access for emergency vehicles
Much easier to serve the western herndon and sterling area and even good access to dulles south through 606 loudoun parkway.
This new location is perfect and with aol scaling down those buildings could be of use for medical offices. There is already a underful school that my wife used to teach at on the aol campus that just expaned and would be perfect for the kids of parents working at the new hospital and doctors and nurses and associated personal.
Stevens Miller would come out as a winner as well in the fact that waxpool goes a long ways to being solved during his term and he does not have to make a tough choice among his neighbors that want a hospital or do not. And solves the critical noise problem I don’t think the flex people over there would mind a hospital and the hospital there fits the neighborhood as a good neighbor
I like this new solution the more and more I think about it actually I love it but it
Lee j
on December 23rd, 2007Already been looked at. First, the county would prefer a hospital farther west, not east. The eastern fringe is already close to Reston and Inova.
Several years ago, the county said the best place for a hospital would be along the Greenway, as far west as possible. The current BRMC site is the furthest west on the Greenway that has water and sewer available and large enough (60 acres).
A location on Rte 50 does not have the population base to support a hospital, nor does it have good access for western Loudoun, other than Middleburg and Aldie, which is a small part of the population. The bulk of western Loudoun is along Rte 7 or north. This area is much better served by a hospital near the Greenway rather than Rte 50 or near 28.
Also, the parcels of land that Verizon had were broken up into smaller parcels or had too much flood plain on them.
vacliff
on December 23rd, 2007Cliff they are only several miles apart. And the flood plain is even better for transition to other uses nearby. Personally I am going to start promoting this new site and it also has room for growth. And it is it could be on the greenway and you already have 28 and 606 and the extension of shellhorn and you have loudoun parkway already built.
Come on you are only talking about several miles apart. Could the real reason no one wants to start over is all the money time and effort for that poor site in the broadlands has already been spent. hmmmm
One of the biggest reasons to support the aol verizon site it helps sole waxpool and your site will put more traffic on waxpool without doing a thing to solve the waxpool problem. Nope the new site is far more advantages to the entire people of the dulles district not just the boardlands area. Besides who is this county you talk about??? there is pretty much a whole new board and planning commissioners and everything needs to be reanalyzed and reviewed. I bet I can get a lot of support for this new location and at the very least have a new serious study done. It is extremely important this is totally re looked at for a many reasons not the least of all getting waxpool solved somewhat in a timely matter. Here is a potential answer to waxpool, the noise problem, and building again too close to residences. and better access to far more roads then just the greenway and making waxpool better for traffic not worse. The main way into the broadlands hospital from the east other then the toll road is waxpoool again helloooo we are trying to keep traffic off waxpool.
Lee j
on December 23rd, 2007HCA has owned their parcel for YEARS. Let them build there. To sell that and relocate just makes them less viable as competition to INOVA’s monpoly.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on December 23rd, 2007They would be moving just several miles away miles away.
Still on the greenway and the potential to help complete the road network between aol and verizon thus helping alleviate traffic on waxpool. Their present site will increase traffic on waxpool and it is very near homes but the other potential site does not have as many negatives and many more positives. I believe it is worth another extensive study to see what site would benefit loudoun the most including noise and traffic.
Lee j
on December 23rd, 2007The budget is obviously the big issue for the next four years. The free ride that rising assessments gave to the tax rate is over. The question is, does Loudoun as a whole have the stomach for large budget cuts, knowing that unless the school budget gets a big reduction the tax rate is going to have to rise?
There should be a community dialogue on this subject sooner rather than later. People need to be informed.
Regarding the board’s seating arrangements, Jim Burton and Sally Kurtz sat next to Eugene all last term. I’m sure they will appreciate the different slant on flanking him they get this time around. It would be cruel to put any of the newcomers next to ED. He mutters and mumbles and makes snide remarks under his breath the whole time.
Elder Berry
on December 24th, 2007Burton and Kurtz certainly deserve awards for putting him with him for another four years and not foisting the “privledge” off on someone else.
Loudoun Insider
on December 24th, 2007true dat, Elder Berry. Tru Dat. Sally’s a tough ‘ol gal, and he doesn’t alarm her. She just rolls her eyes at him.
I tried to talk to ED at the reception. I told him now that the buildout has been nuetered, and if he wanted to be on the winning side of the equation, I’d unite with him as a fellow fiscal conservative on the school budget.
He hit me over the head with the olive branch.
ED, if you come to your senses, and you apologize really good, I’ll reconsider.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on December 24th, 2007Lee-
I would fully support a hospital at that location. Good luck in your efforts getting someone to build one there.
vacliff
on December 24th, 2007http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/24/AR2007122402140.html?nav=rss_metro
According to this article Hatrick is considered a bargin!!!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Lee j
Lee j
on December 25th, 2007I have to say that the board has a lot more important things on its plate than whether or not to approve the HCA-Broadlands Hospital — so lets nix this talk right in the butt (unless of course York decides to push it, since he is on the take and all with HCA). Not to mention there are three blaring items that come to mind with this project (aside from it already being rejected)
First, Almost all the candidates said that they will considered projects based on the impact it has on the neighbors — when you have thousands of people in the immediate area oppoesd to HCA-Broadlands, how on earth can supervisors’s not take that into account? I’m a resident of Broadlands, and I did not move into this neighborhood thinking a hospital would be built right here. It would have an enormous impact on our daily lives.
Second, the next hospital needs to be on Rt. 50 or in the West — anyone who knows anything about health care will tell you that. With the two hospitals (Broadlands and Loudoun Hospital) so close together it will only mean much worse care for us. Would you rather two quality hospital, or two hospital that function like an underbudgeted, disfunctional, inner city hospital. You know the ones where you wait 20 hours in the ER and you fear for your life just getting looked for a cold b/c you may or may not make it out of there. Thats fully what we can expect with two hospitals so close together.
Third, we heard a lot of these folks say on the campaign trail that they are all about ethics, well then let them prove it. Lets not jump at just any company that wants to move to Loudoun — lets make sure they are good standing companies that will do well for the community and Loudoun’s image. I must say, HCA is one of the least ethical companies out there. Just go and google, HCA and Fraud and see what comes up — the largest health care fraud settlement in history! Yeah, thats the type of company we need in Loudoun.
I’m all for expanding bringing in companies to Loudoun, and for another hospital (in the right location)but not the type of company like HCA, and at the expense of the well-being of Loudouners.
XGOPer
on December 25th, 2007VaCliff
I also have to correct your point that the County said the next hospital had to be on the Greenway.
Please allow me to refer you to the Loudoun County Countywide Health Facilities Plan (a plan that lays out the vision for health care growht in Loudoun) — the staff has already presented this to the new board as something they endorse and the board should follow. It also says the next hospital should be in the Rt.50/Dulles South corridor — not along the Greenway. Lets get the facts straight if we’re going to dance.
XGOPer
on December 25th, 2007I have to agree with XGOPer that HCA is absolutely not the type of company we want in Loudoun. I’d say besides googling HCA and Fraud, google HCA and taxes.
What they’re putting out there is a flat out lie — they concern is profit, not Loudoun.
Its not just the fraud (which is bad enough), but look at their pattern of suing localities to pay less taxes. They did it in Fairfax County 10 years ago to the tune of $50 million. Actually they’ve done it all over Virginia to the tune of more than $100 million. So lets not act like HCA is going to come in here and rescue the county — in fact they’ll just worsen the situation and then when they decide its not worth the money just pick up and leave. Thats the truth, just look at their history.
To the contrary, lets recruit high standing firms and build on the existing base that we have. We have a great technology base in the Loudoun and we should continue to move to grow those — thats where the future is at as that sector will only continue to grow and provide Loudoun with a large number of jobs and income.
Not Steve Snow
on December 25th, 2007Buckley for Vice Chairman? Shouldn’t the position go to someone who’s already been in elected office, like Burton or Kurtz? Burk on the right end, in Statton’s old seat? That’s so she can lean over to Kirby Bowers or Jack Roberts to find out what’s going on !
LOUDOUN RABBLE ROUSER
on December 25th, 2007I don’t think Burton or Kurtz want to be Vice Chair.
Loudoun Insider
on December 26th, 2007So at the swearing in ceremony, which supervisor cackled that the “Minchew Six is now the Minchew Two”? Inquiring minds want to know…
not amused
on December 26th, 2007XGOPer-
Oh, you’re referring to the County Healthcare Plan that was created by Inova and passed by the 6 Republican sycophantson the Board. There’s objectivity!!!!
I’m referring to before that when Inova came to the county and asked county staff where to locate a hospital.
“Anyone who konws anything about healthcare” knows you need to put it where the population base can support it. It’s definitely not in the west and, thanks to the denial of the Dulles South CPAM, it won’t be on Rte 50. Why do you think neither company beelieves one won’t be needed on Rte 50 for 10-15 years?
Sorry, but Loudoun will not operate as an under budgeted, under utilized hospital system. Both companies are very well funded and Loudoun is UNDER SERVED in hospital care.
vacliff
on December 26th, 2007Not Steve Snow-
Please indicate where and when this fraud occurred in Virginia. This is something I would really like to know.
I think you are incorrect.
vacliff
on December 26th, 2007Not Steve Snow-
Is this what you’re talking about?
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1992459.doc
a
on December 27th, 2007Yes, I believe that is it. I’ll try tracking down the an article I’ve seen regarding other cases around the country.
VACliff — we all you’re a troll for HCA, so I’ll just write off your uninformed rhetoric as blind biasness. It’s a proven fact around the country that when two hospitals exist so close together and duplicate serviecs it is the quality of health care for the citizens that suffers most.
Not Steve Snow
on December 27th, 2007VACliff -
“A” provided a link to what Not Steve Snow was talking about with the taxes in Virginia.
The fraud I am referring to can be seen at this link to the Department of Justice Press Release here: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2000/December/696civcrm.htm
Or perhaps what Senator Chuck Grassley has to say about HCA here: http://finance.senate.gov/press/Gpress/2003/prg042403.pdf
And here: http://grassley.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=9cfd5099-1b47-4c6a-8c36-2f6539844d6c&Month=6&Year=2003
I particularly like the part about frauding our military health care system — while we’re at war! yeah, they’re a real class act!
XGOPer
on December 27th, 2007I take back the “while we’re at war part” — it was in 2000. But regardless, frauding our military’s health care system is pretty damn low.
Thats certainly not the type of company Loudoun needs to be running to with open arms.
XGOPer
on December 27th, 2007I was there at the Swearing In Ceremony and did not hear any cackling about the 2003-elected Republican Six being reduced to the 2007-elected Republican Two. History will record that the Republican Party did a pretty good job in getting its candidates elected in 2003, but that the Republicans elected to the Board started screwing up pretty much from Day 1. Thus, the 2007 LCRC under Chairman Paul Protic was not dealt a good hand when they had to help get these candidates reelected in 2007.
While I know that some folks get their jollies from partisanship, the LCRC and its leaders cannot be blamed for the mistakes the 2003-elected Republican Six may have done while they were in office.
That being said, it is only honest to note that the political party who really won the 2007 Loudoun Board election was the political action committee known as Voters for Loudoun’s Future who only lost one race, namely, the Delgaudio-West race.
Bev Isiltides
on December 27th, 2007It wasn’t so much that it won those races, as it was about those races being handed to the VLF by the incumbents.
XGOP….why don’t you link to the Justice Dept. investigation of INOVA’s parent for overbilling, and the subsequent huge fine?? Of Course, you knew we’d put it on here if you didn’t care to compare apples and apples.
Two hospitals compete for medicare and customer service…and that’s a loss? As compared to INOVA’s MONOPOLY right now?
Say Scott York is on the inside of HCA one more time. I’ll track an IP and bring you up on defamation of character, right after we finish with Firetti.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on December 29th, 2007