Luckily I got this inside tip just before I left for the day. The Virginia Supreme Court has unanimously declared the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority unconstitutional. I don’t have any details, but apparently this will throw the General Assembly into a meltdown in its last week. This is going to be a mess!
Feb 29th by Loudoun Insider
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If this is correct much credit and a big hat tip is due to Mick Staton who had the forsight to lead this fight, and to the last BOS. (As bad as they were on other issues) they got this one right and were the NoVA Board to do so.
anon
on February 29th, 2008If true this is extremely good news for anyone who believes in open and accountable government.
Tobias Jodter
on February 29th, 2008Kudos to the old board for at least doing this right. IIRC the current board was asked by tax-and-spender Gov Kaine to drop the lawsuit (no surprise there), and was told by the county attorney that it was too late. The new board was not happy…
not amused
on February 29th, 2008So does this mean Pacific and the waxpool widening and road projects now going to be delayed as well as any others??? I know those two were to go under construction soon as well as other road projects.
Lee j
Lee J
on February 29th, 2008” I have the solution??? Lets build a hospital on every corner and have them pay for the roads and bridges, like HCA wants to do with building a hospital on the very controversial Broadlands site by building Belmont Ridge from brambleton to the greenway.
See we can combine health care with road building
And then health insurance companies then indirectly
pay for our roads. Of course people without health insurance will just have to pay higher rates for medical out of their pockets because someone will have to pay the extra health costs when the hospitals are in the road building business
Lee J
on February 29th, 2008[...] Virginia’s Supreme Court rules regional authority NVTA unconstitutional Posted on 29 February, 2008 by Ric James Taking a moment during lunch to check in over at Too Conservative I saw that the lead post was regarding the VA Supreme Court ruling that the NVTA is unconstitutional. Poster Loudoun Insider didn’t have details and was on his way out when he heard, so I went and checked over at WTOP News and there it was: A ruling by Virginia’s Supreme Court will have a direct effect on your wallet and your commute. [...]
Virginia’s Supreme Court rules regional authority NVTA unconstitutional « HoodaThunk?
on February 29th, 2008This is great news for sellers who’ve just had the grantor’s tax go from $1.00 per 1000 to $5 per 1000. This is effective immediately so at least sellers have something to celebrate.
Nova Realtor
on February 29th, 2008This looks like a wise decision supporting local government and avoiding abuse from indirect accountability that the NY Port Authority demonstrated in spades. Whether Mick Staton thought this up all by himself or not, those of us disparaging his other stands should give him whatever credit is due. It shows how we need problem solving with less ideology, partisanship and more pragmatism. How to fund better transportation systems? If we can’t get the hospitals to pay (!) wouldn’t a state gasoline tax with rebates for low income folk (being a regressive tax) make the most sense? But what’s that screaming I hear from the no-tax free-lunch folk?
Malcolm
on February 29th, 2008I was never a fan of this body with the ability to tax, but I’m no fan of the general assembly and the poor perspective many have there on the infrastructure of Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia. There are some folks in Richmond that are perfectly willing to strangle the golden geese. Why?
A gas tax is worth debating.
edmundburkenator
on February 29th, 2008Well well well. Before we go to far overboard in praising the Loudoun BOS. The lawsuit that was filed in the Supreme Court of VA was that of Del. Bob Marshall and the BOS joined this suit to support the question of taxing by non-elected representatives. Although I think the BOS acted on the correct side of this question, Bob Marshall was clearly a driving force from the git go including his repeated opposition to the original bill in the Gen Assb. One might ask does this help Mr. Marshal in his bid for the Republican nomination for the US Senator? Sure looks like his analysis and stedfast insistance on this issue at least shows a thinking principled representative. I like the idea that he can stand up for what’s right instead of just going along. Now perhaps he can think through and propose an honest workable solution to fixing transportation that gets the job done without pandering to special interest.
JTR
on February 29th, 2008The reliance on the home sellers or grantors tax to fund necessary projects to ease traffic congestion via the NVTA not only placed a huge burden on one segment of the population but provided an unpredictable source of revenue for the region’s traffic woes. Before the General Assembly enacted HB 3202, they should have realized that because of the cyclical nature of the real estate industry, grantor taxes are unstable. An easing in the housing market, such as the one our region is experiencing, substantially reduces revenues from these taxes. If any taxes are imposed they should be broad-based to incorporate all people who benefit from an improved transportation system. An increase in the gas tax, local option sales tax or dedication of a portion of the state income tax to local governments would be more equitable, effective and reliable to fund transportation projects. Just my two cents.
CommonGroundGirl
on February 29th, 2008Some very good comments here.
The bottom line is this was aside from being unconstitutional, a very stupid idea. Allowing a non elected group of policy wonks the ability to levy taxes is not only wrong, but very dangerous.
Thank you again Del Marshall and Former Supervisor Staton for all of your efforts. Repelling nit wits is a thankless job.
G. Stone
on February 29th, 2008Here’s one of the big political questions – how much does this hurt Bob McDonnell? He ruled that this abomination was constitutional and he’s been unanimously over-ruled by the Supremes. Bolling can make some hay here.
Loudoun Insider
on February 29th, 2008Thank you , Mr. Marshall. I know you read this.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on February 29th, 2008You’ll see in the opinion that the Marshall, the Loudound BOS and everyone’s favorite Dick Black are the plaintiffs http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1071959.pdf
What’s the over-under on how long it takes Blakc to laud this in a new campaign?
Common Idiot
on February 29th, 2008Bolling was no more opposed to this than McDonnell when it went through. Virtually all the Rs thought this was going to save their skins in November. Other than Bob Marshall, every major Republican in or around the GA looks a little sheepish now. There was very little opposition because there’s very little principle in that body and they were all running scared.
NoVA Scout
on February 29th, 2008This hurts McDonnell the worst. He basically staked everything on this and failed miserably as the Commonwealth’s top lawayer. It could very well be game over for Bobby M’s ambitions in 09.
This really vindicates Bob Marshall who has basically been beat up by some in his own party over this issue. It helps Dick Black enormously as well because it gives him a platform to run again. I know many do not want to hear this but Bob Marshall and Dick Black are hero’s to the taxpayer because they stood up against seemingly insurmountable odds. Its a big day in Virginia for Taxation WITH Representation. In large part, we can thank Bob Marshall who had the courage to go against the entire establishment and come out on top.
arepublican
on February 29th, 2008Maybe now we’ll finally discuss how the state budget went from $20 to $40 billion in the last ten years (50% faster than inflation + population growth), and we’re still passing the hat and/or getting nickled and dimed to pay for transportation. This statistic is the best kept, dirty little secret in Richmond.
Not Dick Saslaw
on February 29th, 2008Let’s not get carried away. This transportation proposal was a relatively creative (albeit flawed) political compromise designed to address an increasingly serious problem. This was an easy, politically attractive target to attack before Virginia’s Supremes. How interested are Marshal, Black/Staton et al. in coming up with solutions? What’s their market solution for addressing this broad-based transportation problem that harms the economic welfare of the community at large? Whatever the solution, it will cost money. The gas tax is a Milton Friedman solution that of course they won’t support. Can we expect other imaginative, pragmatic alternatives to come from the conservative side? That would be refreshing.
Malcolm
on February 29th, 2008Yes, some good comments. I particularly liked what edmundburkenator said about legislators neutering the ‘Golden Goose’. However, it irks me that Black, et al will potentially use this to somehow puff their rooster comb. Errgghh.
Jose Kinusee
on February 29th, 2008NDS, see NLS’s post about the $5 million grant to Honeywell to fix their own pollution problems for just one example of why the state budget is in the crapper. I definitely believe a straight up gas tax increase would have been better than the monstrosity that was just invalidated. However, given the ridiculous rate of expansion of government budgets in the last decade, I firmly believe there is real fat to be cut that would give us the savings to put into transportation. I want a real independent audit of governmental expenditures and real reform before I want to pay another dime in extra taxes. I’m really really sick of the bullshit.
Loudoun Insider
on February 29th, 2008The reason the Rs in the GA went to this like ants to a honey spill is that their rhetoric on taxes completely paralyzed them in terms of addressing the Commonwealth’s financial state. The whole budgetary system is broken, but our party can’t address it because of their anti-tax rhetoric. When they realized that the voters were getting more than a little impatient with inaction on transportation, they cooked up this scheme. Its attraction was that it enabled them to claim that they hadn’t violated their pledges on taxes, but that they had addressed the transportation problem. Ironies abounded, not the least of which was that it pretty much looked like the NoVA referendum that many of them had spoken up against just a few years before. The mutual back-slapping was pretty much universal among the political set and it was only as the weeks went by that items like the abuser fees began to cause second thoughts. I think Marshall is generally about as looney as they come, but he is one of the very few who had a consistent correct position on this. But, as someone noted above in the thread, it isn’t altogether compelling that someone opposed this. The next question is what is their contribution to solving the problem. The ones to watch most closely now are the ones who are trying to pretend they weren’t on board last year. You don’t want those guys around government in any way, shape or form.
NoVA Scout
on March 1st, 2008NoVa Scout,
Do you have any speculations as to who are the ones to ‘watch most closely now’? I’d be curious to know.
Yes, Marshall is a looney–a dogmatic, irresponsible, right wing nut case looney who is wasting his time running for Senate. It is by luck that he has gotten any traction with this issue and furthermore he is using the anti-tax stance to further his social agenda.
Jose Kinusee
on March 1st, 2008The obvious solution is to pass the bill already in debate which would give the local governments the ability to levy special taxes to pay for these projects. There is no reason why the NVTA could not be transformed from a tax levying organization into a body which harmonizes local government taxing and investment decisions in these areas.
IMHO, raising the gas tax a penny a year for five years is a reasonable way to limit the time and fuel I spend stuck in traffic everyday. Infrastructure is a not an expense but an investment in economic development, quality of life, and environmental preservation (idle traffic fills the air with pollution for no good reason). Those who are blindly against any taxation do not realize the hidden tax in time and money we are all paying due to philosphical puritanism.
Tom Conway
on March 1st, 2008Let’s not talk about additional taxes to solve NoVA transportation issues. The people in NoVA send too much money to Richmond to begin with. As an alternative, we need to get Republicans with a backbone down there (like Bob Marshall) to re-evaluate the formula used to distribute transportation funding throughout the Commonwealth. If NoVa has a greater demand over the next decade for transportation compared to the rest of the state, then NoVA should get a greater portion of the money to get the job done. There has been at least one large highway project in the southern part of the state (VA to WV) that as far as I am concerned was a “highway to no where”. That money should have been spent up here.
An even better solution is to rid the state of Democrats like Kaine who want to expand government and get rid of Republicans who believe everything the GA does is constitutional or who make deals with the Dems to come up with sham “solutions” like the NVTA. By the way, the “T” in NVTA does not stand for transportation. It stands for TAXATION!!!!
Over Taxed Republican
on March 1st, 2008Jose,
Just for the record, I moved my family from the Peoples Republic of Maryland to escape left wing nut cases like Tim Kaine and others (maybe you perhaps) who are trying to turn this state into a left wing utopia.
Mr. Marshall is not a “right wing nut case”. He shares the views of many Virginians who know the difference between right and wrong, whether it has to do with fiscal issues or with cultural issues.
At least Mr. Marshall reads the Constitution, which is something that cannot be said of the Dems and Republicans like McDonnell.
In my humble opinion, we have a problem with two classes of immigrants – Illegals and Democrats from the North!!!
Over Taxed Republican
on March 1st, 2008Imposing a tax on home SELLERS never made any sense to me. Many are likely to be leaving VA and won’t benefit from road improvements. If a home transfer tax is to be applied, why not on the BUYERS who will reap the benefits.
Gasoline is costing plenty already–and going up daily. We don’t need more taxes at the pump. If another tax is needed, what about an additional .5 cents on sales tax? That way, we will be taxed equally based upon our purchases.
Loudoun Moderate
on March 1st, 2008It is semantics whether it is a seller or a buyer tax. Since both buyer and seller are parties to a real estate transaction. One brings money to the table and a bunch of people leave with money: the bank, the real estate agents, the government, and maybe the seller. The problem with a transfer tax is that it impedes the liquidity of homes so people aren’t as likely to move closer to where they work becasue the cost of selling/buying/moving is higher.
I like taxes that get as close to a user tax as possible. So a gas tax for building roads seems right to me provided it it spent on roads and not used to fund local pet projects like tourism revitalization.
Ed Myers
on March 1st, 2008Over Taxed,
I think you’re over the top. Look where the right wing elements have gotten the GOP–nowhere! Dogma such as ‘my way or the highway’ and the no tax rhetoric have nearly paralyzed the State.
We have insurmountable problems to contend with with one being transportation. To make our state a viable business location we need transportation networks not stymying congestion; ie, Dulles Airport–one of our golden eggs has no reliable traffic network. So let’s find a way to fix the problem–cut programs, raise taxes, whatever, just solve the gd problem.
You’ve got to pay to play, all of our needs aren’t free. Are you afraid that you won’t have any money left to go to a car race? Or to buy some junk that you don’t really need?
To insinuate that only the Marshall types ” . . .know the difference between right and wrong” is being very irrogant. It would be untopian if all of the GA members genuinely made the needs of the state as number one priority -but no, the right wingers put their own personal agenda first.
FYI, I’m a disenfranchised R, who is looking at other options for leadership. I can’t wait for the next round of the R’s being taken out behind the woodshed. Then we may realize that all elements of the party need to work together and drop the power grabbing mantras.
Jose Kinusee
on March 1st, 2008Personally some more bonds issued would also go a long ways to solving some of the more critical transportation problems. Yes we still eventually need to be able to pay for the bonds but I think they can level the ups and downs in the economy especially if we work to pay more on them when the economy is good.
The grantor’s tax is an horrible tax, period.
A gas tax would be ok if it wasn’t for the Volatile price of gas. Getting the by right developments to pay their fair share would also go an long ways to paying for transportation.
Lee J
on March 1st, 2008Yes, the untold millions, maybe billions, of government waste must be our target. There’s a “welfare queen,†in the cranny of every government agency. If only we could rid ourselves of immigrant northern Democrats who indulge those queens we could meet our entire infrastructure need or – better yet – substantially cut taxes. Why wake from this happy fantasy that government wastes far more than private contractors or big corporations getting government payments?
Of course we need constant vigilance, and a VA GAO might be very useful. But Virginia’s free lunch bunch finds solace and political support in resisting economic and demographic forces today just as in the 19th century its legislators railed against public schools as a waste of money. Sadly, Virginia, like many other states, has had such long-standing cultural disdain and distrust for government that we fail to invest sufficiently in our economic or social capital. The problem transcends Virginia because America itself is rather quickly losing competitive ground to emerging societies – and even “Old Europe†– and becoming an increasingly income-education divided nation. Investment and change have a price, so perhaps we’re getting what we want.
But do Virginians collectively want our transportation in our key growth areas progressively to worsen? Adequate funds will solve this problem, but however useful is waste-cutting, those savings won’t begin to cover transport needs. Economists are unified that a gasoline tax, not a general sales tax, targets transportation users in the most just and direct ways. Those stuck in the worst traffic get the worst mileage and so pay the most toward problem solving. Those in rural areas with the least problems get the best mileage and pay the least. By any measure of real dollars paid, American’s pay little more than we did in the past, and far less than what other countries pay (excepting subsidizing oil producing states). We’re unhappy but docile when market prices (or whatever) drive up 10 cents a gallon, but we vigorously resist a nickle increase to pay for transportation solutions? Are we indeed such a spoiled, selfish and shortsighted generation?
Cicero
on March 1st, 2008Over Taxed Republican , we agree on alot of the opinion you put forth.
I’d only add that the abusive driver’s fees were only unlawful in that they were not offered from the criminal side instead of the civil side. I support fining and reigning in bad drivers, but I also support adding infractions to the criminal code. I also support adding it there, because unlike the recently failed option by the NVTA, the criminal side could collect from WV and MD drivers who abuse the NoVa roadways.
10 feet tall and Bulletproof
on March 1st, 2008And who really thinks that if we increase the gas tax, Northern Virginia will see any of that money? I’m sure it will all be spent in more “needy” places around the state.
vacliff
on March 1st, 2008Here’s a message to all those no-tax House Republicans: If you don’t raise the gas tax now for transportation projects and put it in a lock box, you will be strangling the Northern Virginia that lays the golden egg for the entire state.
CommonGroundGirl
on March 1st, 2008CommonGroundGirl:
Why don’t you take Jose and the two of you can go looking for the “Lockbox”, I think it is buried in Al Gores back yard. Gather up anyone else on this site who wants to raise our taxes, you will need all the help you can get.
G. Stone
on March 1st, 2008aghhhh- I see some of the free lunch crowd has a taste for red meat. I say pay for your bloody sandwich or shut up
Seeing as how cheap gas helped get us into this problem I would be in favor of a statewide gas tax (and I’m not talkin’ about 10 measly cents a gallon- add another zero please)
From what I’ve heard the state is about $200,000,000,000 behind funding the already appoved transportation projects in the pipeline- the GOP transportation package was always a too small band-aid at best (although I approved of fining bad drivers- ALL bad drivers, not just Virginians)
AFF
on March 2nd, 2008Jose and the other RINOs,
Jose, you talk like the elitist snob that most of the liberals/”Progressives” I know. The money I earn is mine (and my family’s), not yours, not Tim Kaine’s, not George Bush’s, and not even Bob Marshall’s. I can spend my money any way I want. Your comment about not be able to go to a car race is an example of your snobbery. In addition, your comment about not being able to buy junk that I don’t really need sounds like a true socialist. I can spend my money in any manner I want. I am not in support of a government that demands more and more of my money without oversight so I have to reduce the fruits of my labor.
You are a disenfranchised Republican probably because the Republican Party does not want socialists in the tent!
By the way, if you are trying to throw a few sticks and stones at the NASCAR crowd, it won’t hurt me. I do not especially care about NASCAR since I am more of a fan of motorcycle racing. Different strokes for different folks you know!
I am surprised you did not say something about the NRA crowd since people of your ilk usually spew the normal dribble against firearm ownership. I am an NRA member by the way.
But let’s get back on the main topic here. I am not saying we do not have a transportation problem here in NoVA. I happen to live and work in NoVA and have to suffer through the daily commute like everyone else. However, I am sick and tired of politicians, whether at the local, state, or federal level coming to me and other taxpayers to pay more and more when government expenditures continue to escalate. The expenditures seem to go to some elements of the populace to buy their votes.
Richmond needs to prioritize where the money goes. If road construction or mass transit are truly important, then cuts need to be made in other programs to compensate for the expenditures. At the same time Kaine is telling us that transportation is a priority, he is attempting to shove taxpayer funded day care (AKA pre-K) down our throats. Of course, he is throwing out the usual Democrat mantra about education, the environment, ad nauseum.
Your comment about the GA making the needs of the state as their number one priority needs to be clarified. The needs you are talking about are those of the usual suspects/sacred cows – the bloated public education system, the welfare crowd, the environmental extremists, etc. The base of the Democrat Party.
Republicans run into trouble when they start acting like “me too Democrats” and the uneducated populace can’t see the difference between the two parties. Examples include, Messers. Chichester and Potts. When I would read their comments in the newspaper, I had to keep reminding myself that they had an “R” and not a “D” after their names.
Republicans at the national level in 2006 found out how their spending like Democrats did not exactly buy them votes. Spineless Republicans seeking common ground at all levels of government has put this country into this dilemma whether it’s campaign finance reform, Social Security, “comprehensive immigration reform”, etc.
Jose, if you are looking for other options for leadership, may I suggest Obama or Hillary or maybe even the Red Party, oops I mean the Green Party with Ralph Nader.
PS,
Use your spell check. Try typing arrogant and utopian the next time!
Tip of the hat to you G. Stone. Commonground Girl and Jose must be drinking the same Kool Aid!
- Over Taxed Republican
Over Taxed Republican
on March 2nd, 2008“Spineless Republicans seeking common ground… has[sic] put this country into this dilemma…”
Over Taxed, have you suffered a head injury related to your motorcycle interests?
edmundburkenator
on March 2nd, 2008Edmundburkenator,
No head injuries but definitely shell shocked by all the taxes that liberals feel I should pay.
By the way, liberals and Democrats cannot use head injury as their excuse for their actions. LIberalism is a mental affliction not related to head injuries! I believe it is related to kleptomania where they steal from other people to satisfy their own needs.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 2nd, 2008Over Taxed, (I don’t blog on Sunday’s)
I don’t believe that I’ve roused anyone more than your rant before. I have two points, then I’ve got to go out and shake down more people in order to pay my taxes.
1) you want protection, transportation networks, social services, low college costs, etc, etc.(you add the special benefits that you receive from living in this great country of ours)–then you’ve got to pay for it.
2)if your representatives don’t have the same priorities as you–then work like hell to get them out or change their minds. My only request is that don’t take advantage of any group including the social conservatives to further your cause like others have done unsuccessfully. Good luck,
Jose Kinusee
on March 3rd, 2008In addition, Over Taxed R, I support John McCain, own a weapon, and watch ‘Fight Quest’ and cage fighting; you need to go back to stereotyping school for some learn’in?
Jose Kinusee
on March 3rd, 2008Over-taxed… your Republican pals in Congress (before the current Congress mind you) have provided bridges to nowhere, diagnosed Terri Schiavo, tossed money and tax breaks at churches, states, and corporations (did someone say welfare?) and at last count added $32 TRILLION to our debt (you can apologize to your children anytime).
And don’t forget about our nation-building project which to close observers is looking like another money-suck for 50 years.
You can spew that liberalism is this and conservatism is that, but liberals have not been at the wheel of this motorcycle wreck.
Get off your soapbox, turn off Limbaugh, Hewitt, and Hannity, and start thinking for yourself.
That’s what conservatives are supposed to do.
edmundburkenator
on March 3rd, 2008Perhaps I should have said “liberals have not been at the handlebars of this motorcycle wreck.”
edmundburkenator
on March 3rd, 2008Jose,
It should come as no surprise that you support John McCain.
Not everyone feels that we need all of the social services that government provides. Your dim-witted comment that we have to pay for living in this country is way off base. The reason why government has become so expensive is that it continues to find more and more ways to become the nanny state. Besides, I am one of those people in this country who went to college (paid for it myself by the way), worked my butt off, and I am currently earning good money. I have worked for the government and I see how it operates and how money is wasted. I do not appreciate it when elitists like you and your buddy Edmundburkenator think you know better than anyone else and start getting emotional with my tax dollars.
Edmundburkenator,
You reinforced my point. Wasteful spending by either party is a threat. That’s why I have a problem with the NVTA. The Republicans and the Democrats in Richmond refused to look at the way transportation dollars are distributed and chose the easy way – create an unconstitutional authority and nail us with multiple taxes, user fees, registration fees, etc.
Furthermore, using your logic, we should send more money to Richmond and DC so either party can come up with creative ways to waste our money?
If you are really concerned about future generations, you should also be concerned about the global warming boondoggle that will suck money from all Americans based on hysteria spread by Al Gore, the UN, and other extremists.
Your rant sounds like the same crap that I hear from the mental midgets on Airhead America and the various “Progressives” that show up in DC for the anti-war rallies. Maybe you should do like you preach and do some thinking for yourself. Maybe you can start by reading newspapers other than the Washington Post and the New York Times and get the other side of the story.
By the way, I do listen to the guys you named as well as Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 3rd, 2008Over Taxed R,
You’ve got an affliction common among right wing nuts – called selfish-itis and I’m going to write you a prescription. It is for one dose of working in a ’soup kitchen’ for the indigent. It should make you feel better and thankful that you live in the land of milk and honey where the taxes are low compared to the rest of humankind.
Come back when you’ve completed your medicine. Good luck–and I hope you start to feel better once you begin to think of others’ well being as much as you do of your own.
Jose Kinusee
on March 3rd, 2008Over Taxed Republican no doubt speaks for a lot of folk, else I’d not bother responding. But when one eliminates OTR’s (pedestrian and shop-worn) polemics and relentless ad hominum attacks now plaguing American politics — what exactly are his arguments? 1). Government is inherently wasteful, and that apparently cannot be fixed. 2). That apparently the waste involves environmental expenditures urged by environmental extremists, whom he surely despises, but these expenditures are unspecified except for mention of global warming actions — which are now limited to energy efficiency measures. 3). That government is providing unwanted and unnamed services — at least to him, since he’s earning a good living, thank you very much. 4). That transportation expenditures aren’t devoted to the places in most need, although the one attempt to focus these expenditures failed (for good reasons) and no alternative is suggested.
Liberals can often be criticized as being insufficiently practical and too prone to want to change behavior. But right-wing polemics like OTR’s are grounded not only in deep bitterness rivaling old Scrooge but in utter inability to imagine being in the shoes of other folk less fortunate but no less worthy under our Constitution. With that myopia, and without human capacity for empathy, debate is hopeless.
Cicero
on March 3rd, 2008Jose and Cicero, you guys should probably stop. I made the mistake of engaging with a guy that is comfortable in his echo chamber.
And so did you.
The world is flat and were all just so stupid for not agreeing with him.
edmundburkenator
on March 4th, 2008Cicero and fellow travelers,
You guys can demonstrate all the empathy for your fellow man you want – just use your own dollars.
I love how the libs tell “right wing nuts” not to mix politics and religion when it comes to things like abortion, gay marriage, etc. but then turn around and quote the Bible to lecture the rest of us as to why we need to pay more taxes in an unreasonable attempt to cure every social ill.
I donate money to various charities and I do it of my own free will.
If you gentlemen (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by referring to you as gentlemen) want details about the waste in government, try reading a book. I would also suggest that you watch the normal dribble on “60 Minutes” every Sunday but of course according to the lefties at CBS, the only government waste is in the Pentagon.
If you are satisfied with the way Social Security is handled by our government and have not problems continuing to send more and more money to Washington, then hope for our country is truly lost.
To quote a famous American, Americans are not undertaxed, its just that government spends too much.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 5th, 2008Cicero and fellow travelers,
You guys can demonstrate all the empathy for your fellow man you want – just use your own dollars.
I love how the libs tell “right wing nuts” not to mix politics and religion when it comes to things like abortion, gay marriage, etc. but then turn around and quote the Bible to lecture the rest of us as to why we need to pay more taxes in an unreasonable attempt to cure every social ill.
I donate money to various charities and I do it of my own free will.
If you gentlemen (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by referring to you as gentlemen) want details about the waste in government, try reading a book. I would also suggest that you watch the normal dribble on “60 Minutes” every Sunday but of course according to the lefties at CBS, the only government waste is in the Pentagon.
If you are satisfied with the way Social Security is handled by our government and have no problems continuing to send more and more money to Washington, then hope for our country is truly lost.
To quote a famous American, Americans are not undertaxed, its just that government spends too much.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 5th, 2008Cicero, Edmundburkenator, and Jose,
Based on the tone of your messages, I have a few questions for you.
1. How old are you?
2. What is your occupation or are you still in college?
I do not know too many people who are working in the real world and supporting a family to have such leftie ideals.
You guys definitely sound like college students, fans of MoveOn and Daily Kos, and who have been drinking the Kool Aid provided by their professors.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 5th, 2008I’ll tell you Over-taxed…
I’m 47, own my own business which is a profitable consulting practice. I hold a couple of degrees and I (you should like this) own a ‘71 Triumph Bonneville 650. I’m also an adjunct professor (not in politics though), and own two homes.
I can’t find where any one of the three of us mentioned a Bible verse, but I count several instances where you misrepresent our positions or create straw men.
I disagree with a few folks around here from time to time, but the arguments are usually good natured and based on facts.
Yours are not.
With that said, I’m going to take my own advice and not engage you again. I spend too much time talking to true believers.
I hope for the best for you Over Taxed and I sincerely wish that you start asking more questions of those in whom you place so much trust.
edmundburkenator
on March 6th, 2008BTW Over Taxed R,
I just got back from a refreshing trip to Florida that you helped subsidize as part of a business tax deduction. Thank you very much.
Jose Kinusee
on March 11th, 2008Jose,
You should take the money you saved from the tax deduction and send it to Richmond and help the poor and build roads for us working slobs here in NoVA. Evidently you are a fan of welfare for the rich, eh?
Edmundburkenator,
I am a 51 year old, college educated environmental consultant with over 25 years experience. That includes 10+ years as a regulator in the People’s Republic of Maryland. So when I make comments about how wasteful and inefficient the government is, I speak as a witness.
I never stated that any one of you mentioned the Bible. However, I have noticed that the left side of the spectrum seems to use the Bible or a moral argument to justify taxation to feed the poor. However, they sure get ticked off when people on the other side use the Bible as support for legislating certain issues.
I am no Bible-thumper but I sure do see the hypocrisy of the lefties.
By the way, I question everyone, especially people with whom I have no trust, like politicians and amateur pundits.
Over Taxed Republican
on March 13th, 2008