They both flubbed it

By VA Blogger

Just as a comment to the video down below, and the scores of partisans on both sides (not on this blog) who are making a big deal out of it, the chain of events is such: 1) Obama started repeating the oath before Roberts was finished; 2) Roberts then transposed the word “faithfully”, forgetting it then tacking it onto the end of the sentence; 3) Obama realized the error and stuttered, but was a good sport and recited Roberts’ mistaken version.

Did Roberts cause Obama to stutter? Did Obama’s initial flub cause Roberts to forget the word? Does it matter in the slightest? If anyone should be mocked, it’s Senator Diane Feinstein of California who, moments before, clearly called it the “oaf of office”.


Comments

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Alter,

    The only working proposal was to move aircraft assigned to Oceana to Moody AFB, and rename Moody as NAS Valdosta or something of the sort.

    That idea was axed, and BRAC made a lot of changes to Moody, one of which was bringing in a wing of A-10s. The Army special forces group is actually going to Hulbert Field, my mistake on that.

    Thus, Moody is now at capacity, and there’s no place to move that large Air Force wing (fighters and special opps aircraft). Thus, there’s no place to move the huge number of aircraft at Oceana.

    But again, are you more concerned about trouble potentially 5-8 years down the road to the trouble that we’re facing right now? As far as the crystal ball on defense layoffs, the main short/medium-term goals of the Obama economic team is 1) getting credit flowing again and 2) job creation. All of that is safe for at least the next 4 years and most likely longer.

    As far as Ft. Monroe closing – it’ll make a nice museum and park, like the rest of the casemate forts that closed over the last 100-150 years.

    Being parochial about cuts is a true sign of hypocrisy. Yeah, cut government spending, just don’t cut it where I live :-)

    Everyone thinks the stuff that is of benefit to them is much more important than the stuff they don’t use. Not withstanding that someone else is benefiting from that other stuff, and they find it highly important but strangely, don’t rate your stuff that high.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Notice I did not argue why Oceana should not be closed, I simply said that it would be and would further contribute to the current economic woes of the region. If you think we are going to pull out of this in the next two or three years, your alot more optimistic than me. The backlog of housing and job data that will be brought to light in QTR 2 will strangle this market and I would expect us to head higher in oil and other commodity prices as well. We weathered $4 a gallon last year, could we do it again in the face of what has happened since last summer to the economy? I wonder.
    Virginia and California share the larger peices of the pie for sure in terms of defense so it is logical that Virginia will feel some pain and rightfully so. The question is can our economy withstand it when it happens or will our GA continue to sit on its hands in gridlock.

  • Lee J says:

    The strategy is to create jobs in the public sector not in the government. And government contractors are just better paying government jobs it all comes directly from taxes.
    And that does not help the economy in the long run and Obama and his team knows that.
    I believe it is naive to think to think like most did about the housing boom it is going to be ok. Real private sector jobs is what this economy needs the ones that are not paid by the tax dollars.

    As I said before the construction is by far the largest industry in the world or was ;-) and the most employment and did not depend on tax dollars. When that comes back if ever in our lifetimes then the economy will hum again.

  • Lee J says:

    i meant private sector

  • G. Stone says:

    LL, I’ve already beefed about the Treasury Secretary. Try to keep up.

    So then you will join me in calling for the president to drop this guy. Right ?

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Lee J- I used to feel the same way until you fully get a handle on just how many jobs are linked to one defense job. Many of these companies are public ones like Boeing, NG, etc. Parts and the like as well are supplied by employers of alot in the private sector.

    I always took a beating when I went up against the crazies who go after the coal industry because they never understood that for every coal job there is six jobs linked to it that are not in the industry. For example, to end coal production as a viable source would be to end the railroad industry as we know it. Thats CSX and Norfolk Southern here for example. It would create layoffs at the ports as well as well as all the back office jobs like insurance, benefits, etc linked to the industry. They simple just concentrated on a one for one in terms of the replacement green jobs they propose to replace the coal jobs.
    But what the heck, nationalize the railroads while were at it b/c if coal goes by the wayside they we be getting in line soon enough for a bailout. We shall see whther the defense cuts stay directly in defense or trickle into other areas as well that support the industry.

  • edmundburkenator says:

    G, I will. I don’t like him. I want Bair in and him out and I’ve written both of my Senators. He’ll pass 80-20.

    The guy (or my preference, girl) in charge of the Treasury at this critical time should not be a the stuff of punchlines for his tax stupidity.

    Now, where to find those folks in this town…

  • G. Stone says:

    - edmundburkenator
    I too have emailed both Senators. Yes he will get through, Unfortunate but true.

  • edmundburkenator says:

    I just want to be clear here.

    Do I like Obama? Yep.
    Did I vote for him? Yep.
    Does he get a free pass from me because I voted for him? Absolutely not.

    There are plenty of people out there that think Obama will make it everything better, heal the sick, convince the bads guys to like us, etc, etc…

    These folks are just as unrealistic, blind and idiotic as the 22 percent that still approved of Bush in his last day.

    It is our duty to hold ourselves accountable and our government accountable. In that order.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    What does it say about Washington yet again that a majority of folks are railing over the Treasury appointment and maybe a lesser extent Eric Holder and yet it continues with really no hurdles through committee. Friends its not about change, its not about transparancy frankly regardless of which Party its about POWER!!! We can take our country back and I could care less who resides in the WH by simply hamnering away at and annoying the hell out of Congressman daily. Whose Constitution is it exactly?

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Alter,

    His nomination is under the microscope and has already been held up a few times, now for at least a week. The process is working. it’s not an elected position, it’s an appointment. Plain and simple. Do you really expect a mega-majority Democratic Senate to shoot down a Democratic President’s appointee on a whim? Unless there’s hard evidence of a crime or some evidence that tells them that he would be a bad AG, then he gets approved.

    The constitutional process is working as designed in this case. What’s the problem here?

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    I don’t know NJSM could it be the fact they hammered the hell out of McCain over vetting and yet they knew this crap about him and still had the audacity to put him up for confirmation. At least it seems Caroline Kennedy in her situation had the sense to remove herself regarding the Senate seat.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    What, that Holder is being held up by Republicans because he had the audacity to say that he thought that waterboarding is torture? The only holdups at this point is Republican worry about DoJ possibly investigating and making charges against interrogators. The rest of the stuff – what he did in the Clinton Administration – is not an issue at this point.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Sure thing. The pardon is irrelevent. I get it. Change we can believe in right? Okay I get it. Should it not be torture that is the non-issue at this point-I mean did not Obama say he wanted to move forward? My Congressman’s office says its about Rich but go ahead keep tuning into Olbermann and let him shape your dynamic. Cheers.

  • NJSM, Rich is a problem. Those pardons are a problem. I agree with Holder on his legal positions regarding torture but the baggage from the Clinton administration is a source of deep frustration for me.

    Are the ranks of people that hold Holder’s talents but not his unfortunate history so thin?

  • G. Stone says:

    My problem with Holders positions on torture and pardons is secondary to his history on the Second Amendment and gun control .
    Eric Holder has a LOOOOOONG record of supporting every and I mean every gun regulation ever imagined. He is a staunch ally of those groups advocating for the banning of all handguns and eventually all private firearms ownership. If you give one wit about guns rights in this country, you should oppose this guy.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Stone,

    That’s not why he’s being held up at this point. Nor are the pardons. Holder didn’t pardon Rich, Clinton did. Holder worked for Clinton and thus carried out the pardon. I think the world of President Clinton but in the Rich case, he clearly made an error IMHO. However, it was his choice to do so.

    The hold is currently on, per Cornyn, so they can review his earlier testimony concerning torture. The Republican concern here is someone in the new administration starting an investigation and handing down indictments to someone/anyone/everyone involved in the decision to allow torture in interrogations, and the ones who carried out those orders. Which would pretty much be from Cheney to Rumsfeld down through some very senior officers to the intel specialist who ran the interrogation.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Again, did not Obama say that no such investigations would occur regarding the past and he was looking forward in terms of how the new order will be applied? Is not a greater threat the new tapping issues domestically that are trickling out than the torture issue with regard to the previous administration?

  • G. Stone says:

    Mosby
    I fully understand the why. My comment was that the why is second to my knowledge of this guys history.
    I don’t care if they dump him over unpaided parking tickets. Just dump him.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Alter,

    I try and give specific answers to specific questions. The question here is why is Holder being held up, and the answer, from the guy who invoked the hold, is that it’s to review his previous testimony. Nothing else at this point.

    Personally, I don’t think there is going to be legal action against any of the Bush people. Not that a lot of Democrats and most of the world wouldn’t want to see the main perpetrators, including Bush himself, getting grilled on the matters. I think Obama’s plan is to acknowledge it was all shit, then move forward on more pressing matters. Let history decide who to really blame, but I don’t see any real value in rehashing the past. There’s plenty to do on the economic and foreign relations front without causing everything to grind to a halt for six months of Iran-Contra style hearings.

    Should it be done? Probably, but looking forward and not back is the prevailing plan of the day.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Lee,

    I’m glad you finally checked out that page. That should give your paranoia over defense cuts in Virginia a little relief, at least for now.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    “let history decide who is really to blame”—what for keeping us safe? If God forbid we do get hit again I wonder just how some are going to spin their accountability in the manner.

    NJSM you have alot of faith. This is the same rhetoric we got under Clinton in 92/93 and then all hell broke lose in 94 with cuts galore to both the military and defense contracting. maybe I would believe Obama’s camp if it were not for the fact the same guys that took swings at the budget by reducing defense are the same gents that just got invited back to the Party in Washington. You are an optimist afterall, go figure.

  • Alter, do you want the Pentagon budget to go up?

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    We were talking about the cuts and some think it will not be cut very much and my point was given history and the folks in the Obama camp from the old Clinton line the cuts will come and come hard to Virginia.

    As to defense spending…..I differ to your pocket US Constitution.

  • Lee J says:

    Lee,

    I’m glad you finally checked out that page. That should give your paranoia over defense cuts in Virginia a little relief, at least for now.
    - Not John S. Mosby

    I think you should read the document. Alter is correct Virginia could be hit hard.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Alter,

    Did you look at the page on the White House website? Yeah, in the early 90s, there were massive reductions in US forces, but not so much in spending. Going from 18 to 10 active duty Army divisions, going from 550 Navy ships and subs down to about 300, a massive Air Force reorganization that eliminated a lot of bombers and missile wings and fighter aircraft. But the defense budget remained pretty steady.

    I agree with Ed, do you want a massive increase in Defense spending just so you can keep a job or something? Are the conditions the same now as in 92-94, when we were drawing down from the Cold War?

    Obama is advocating more troops and equipment. Counting in troops hopefully coming home from Iraq, and I see a lot of full bases to just to hold everyone.

    Even so, what is your exact paranoia? You’re in Richmond, not exactly a hotbed of the defense industry. Tidewater is safe because Norfolk will be in business as long as the Navy is. Oceana will be around since every place they could move to has already been shut down or is occupied. Little Creek is good because there’s no where for those ships to go and be near 2 MEF in North Carolina. Langley is probably safe since ACC is there and they aren’t going anywhere. Ft. Eustis just gained a bunch of units, and i don’t see any Army closings if there’s gong to be 3 more divisions worth of soldiers to house and train.

    Now, in Richmond, if Ft. Lee were to close, I could possibly see that happening, although doubtful since, again, where would the school go?

    As far as up in NoVA, we will be growing on both the DoD and Civ Gov sides. GSA is already putting out feelers for up to 3-4 MILLION feet of leased office space for all of the new finance oversight stuff that’s going to spring up.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Lee,

    Could be, maybe not. You guys are making statements not based on fact and without any evidence to back it up. If the stated economic goals of this administration is to create jobs, and the stated military goals of this administration is to bulk up active-duty troops, then those two pieces of evidence go in contrary to your conjecture.

  • Anonymous says:

    The whole inaugural event was flubbed. Aretha Franklin sounded awlful, the anouncer guy pronounced Pres George W. Buss (sounds like puss) among many others. It all came across as amateur hour. Did you know that the wonderful John Williams piece by YoYoMa, et al was piped in music? The said they couldn’t tune their instruments due to the cold—bs. What ever happened to demanding excellence? Bad.

  • Jose Kinusee says:

    I can’t seem to get this damn thing to work anymore. That previous comment was from. . .

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Maybe they should have piped in Obama and Roberts doing the oath. Then they wouldn’t have it up screwed up.

  • Lee J says:

    Actually they were playing for real it, but only the people near them could hear tho. It was not piped thru the speakers or to TV

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    No job to preserve on this end. NJSM you are conflicting different debates within the thread.

    I certainly never advocated increased defense spending but merely stated the cuts that are coming will as Lee J states “hit Virginia hard”.

    You seem to be saying that you see that an increase in troops equates to overall jobs; certainly but limited private sector jobs. As veteran I can tell you that much of the support personnel for the armed forces are within the ranks of the armed forces; whether it be medical, health, dental etc. The greater impact is in the spending side of defense procurements where it is private sector jobs and those related to the Fortune 500 defense related firms that build systems, aircraft, tanks, and naval systems that are going to be reduced.

    You seem to be saying that an increase in uniformed servicemen and an overall increase in spending equates to jobs, but it does not always work out that way and it depends on where the bulk of the spending is going. In your scenario its enlarging the uniformed force and training and NOT new weapon systems.

    Ft. Lee is expanding already to meet the demands of previous base consolidations so it already is part of the solution. You will see more base closures in the future and greater consolidation which is independent of the increase in troop levels….ask yourself how many new bases have been constructed in the USA in the last forty years during all the hills and valleys of the size of the military. I dare say we have built more nuke power plants and that ain’t saying much.

    The issue was whether Virginia would be hit with rising unemployment given its reliance as the second largest defense procurement beneficiary after California and the answer is certainly yes yes yes. Its already happening as hiring has frozen at these firms and some are reducing workforces.

    NJSM seems to be directing his eyes solely on government jobs, ie uniform personnel and to be sure if the economy keeps tanking I would expect more people to enlist as young people have zero alternatives in the economy.

    In terms of BRAC- NJSM apparently never read the documents or supportive evidence that reflected Oceana. It was saved friend. The recommendation already was to close it by those making the recs. Nothing has changed in reality since then and we will see just how much pull Webb/Warner and those in the House have in the coming years to save it again.

    Is there a “war” now we can be drawing down from. Do you subscribe to the view there really is not a war on terrorism? Do not think that Russia is returning to its previous build-up programs through its oil revenues and do you not recognize that China currently is focusing on becoming a Naval threat (surface and subs).

    I never advocated increased spending, but lets face facts those subscribing to your belief have always thought we did not need to spend what we do on the military. I am sure there are other programs you would rather see the budget go to. I just said cuts are coming, just like in every other Democrat term and given the current economic climate it will have greater impact than the 90′s cuts EVEN if they are not as severe in cuts. Why? Well, frankly during the 90′s there were jobs for those impacted by the cuts to go to and NOW there are not.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Alter,

    You mentioned in a different thread that, professionally and personally for you, the 90s weren’t good. So that is surely clouding your vision on this.

    If you read the White House site, plus the position papers put out, the build-up does equate to large doses of procurement spending. It states – explicitly, with direct references – to keeping open the C-17 line, teh F-22 line. Keeping the V-22 program going, and the F-35 development schedule. To get back on track with the new tanker program, now that the anti-Boeing people are history.

    I’ve been in the defense world since 1993. I’ve done work in over 40 states and territories, and 31 foreign countries. I’ve been to just about every active-duty base that we have around the world, and a lot of hot spots. Bosnia and Iraq, specifically.

    I see nothing, at this point in time, that would provide evidence that there is suddenly going to be a major cut in DoD spending. Anywhere, much less in Virginia.

    Most people that I’ve talked to, across the political spectrum, were happier in the 90s than this decade. There wasn’t much in the way of gloom and doom in the 90s, and the economy was booming. Most people were happy, with a positive outlook.

    This decade, much less so. For you, 9/11 seems to have made you appreciate things a bit more. For most of us, it’s just a downer. But regardless, don’t worry about something that might happen, with your basis for worrying being something that happened 16 years ago.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Politcis are politics my friend and we have both been around long enough to know what area of the budget will get cut. These are differing times for sure, but in the case of Democrats they will NOT want to cut things like medicare,medicaid, welfare, education and so on for obvious reasons and Defense is always the one area that is the cross to bear for cuts for Democrats. Clinton was just the latest/recent most example, but his folks are back in Washington making the recs are they not? Obama facing staggering deficits through no fault in reality of his own and it will be on the back of defense cuts that will be argued as a means of trying to trim the fat sorta speak.
    How I know it will happen? The job cuts already underway are a precursor to what the market is expecting and also the reduction in earning estimates for publically traded companies to start. Something is afoot. I just think we need to deal with the realities we face and my bet is the cuts happen and happen deep. BTW a majority of the systems you reference are certainly “required” given the aging fleet of fixed wing aircraft and the like but they will not be enough. Just my view.

  • I Bleed Obama Blue says:

    Craig Roberts, Media Relations Manager for the American Legion, issued the following statement:

    The American Legion, as it has on every inauguration evening since 1953, hosted the Salute to Heroes Inaugural Banquet & Ball on January 20th. The quadrennial event is co-sponsored with fourteen veterans service and military service organizations and honors recipients of the Medal of Honor. Forty-seven of these heroes attended this year’s event which was held in the Renaissance Washington DC Hotel.

    President Obama was invited but did not attend. Vice-President Joe Biden did appear, however, and was very warmly received. The new President’s absence was understandable considering the unprecedented logistical challenges presented by the vastly increased number of visitors to this inauguration and the necessary attendant security measures. The American Legion, as an organization, does not feel offended or “snubbed.”

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Report out that 39% of surveyed employers say they WILL be laying people off in 2009…..enough said. Home Depot just the first bombshell.

  • “Most people who have shitty credit scores got them because they’re shitty with money. If you gambled that your home price was going to keep going up and borrowed against it and spent the money, then you deserve what you get. If you thought you could get a $350k house for only $500 a month, you should have been smart enough to realize that’s too good to be true. I’m all for hanging mortgage brokers who sold shitty mortgages to people who should have never gotten a loan. But just saying “everyone has a good credit score” pastes over the fact that a lot deadbeats are where they are because of themselves.
    - Not John S. Mosby ”

    I knew that if you danced enough, you’d inevitably land on a subject we can both agree on. I applaud your insight on the “real” problem, and look forward to the day when you also admit that there were people in homes that they shouldn’t have had.
    I’m old school, and my mortgage required 20% down and a great credit score. Many who lost their homes were not subject to those two caveats….because of the Community Reinvestment Act and it’s later revisions under Clinton.

    Incidently, I perused the comments today, and it appears I was in a grizzly bear of a mood when I lashed out at a certain California Congresswoman.
    I’d like to apologize for that outburst. The sentiment is right on…but I probably could have labored a little longer with word choice before I typed. Sorry for the faux obscenity..

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Monk,

    So an overabundance of cheap money and speculative and greedy mortgage brokers and banks had nothing to do with it? That it’s all Clinton’s fault that mortgages were handed out like candy? And that, for the first six years of the Bush administration, if that’s all it was, they were unable to pass legislation to repeal and/or alter the act, even though Republicans controlled all aspects of government for 4.5 of those 6 years?

    If you claim it’s because of a law or regulation that was implemented during the Clinton administration, why didn’t the Bush administration fix it?

  • edmundburkenator says:

    Monk, do you have any idea how many loans were made under the CRA? When you look that one up, then find out how many of those loans are in default.

    I think you will be surprised by your findings.

  • Not John S. Mosby says:

    Ed,

    Asking Republicans to actually look at data is a complete waste of time. They already know the answer because it was on Faux News and the right-wing radio shows. No need to actually find answers when they’ve been given to you.

  • Not Mosby…and stop abusing the name… because I had two distant relatives who rode with him…
    I do not listen to rightwing radio. And if you’ve ever watched Fox News, you’d already know that both sides are presented (as opposed to ABC, CBS and MSNBC’s one sided coverage.)
    Fox caters to a more intelligent voter…the one’s that do operate on facts.

    And I’m not really crazy with the Republicans in Congress anytime after they fell away from the principles that made them popular. The Contract with America was fantastic, but the Republicans who brought it to us were spending like drunken sailors inside of three years after it, which is disturbing, because now nobody was in Congress representing us!!

    Probably goes along way in explaining why Bush had a 26% approval rating, but Congress had a 9 % approval rating.

    I suppose neither of you has seen the May 2006 YouTube spot that aired on CSPAN showing a democrat-controlled congress fail to pass the FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005.

    http://thebulletproofmonk.blogspot.com/2008/09/because-it-bears-repeating-in-light-of.html

    And the original video is embedded on the link in this post:

    http://thebulletproofmonk.blogspot.com/2008/09/everyone-in-america-stop-what-youre.html
    But you don’t want to see those…they’re fact-filled.

  • “Fox caters to a more intelligent voter…the one’s that do operate on facts.”

    Sigh.

    BM, did you do the CRA research?

    If you are now changing your target to Fannie and Freddie, and the stupid decisions regarding their oversight. I’m with you there.

    Any bile reserved for Gramm? Or is this 100 percent Frank/Dodd for you?

  • G. Stone says:

    Any bile reserved for Gramm? Or is this 100 percent Frank/Dodd for you?
    - edmundburkenator

    If my answer was yes, them Gramm being one out of three puts the percentage of blame about right. I said many months ago this was a 70 / 30 issue. Dems in congress and the previous Dem administration own the 70% of blame. Based on the facts before us, I was correct then, as well as now.
    Frank and Dodd should both be working at Wendys. Instead with the approval and blessing of the New president they are guiding the fix to the economic mess. These two are asked to play major roles in repairing the very mess for which they created and many of you are cheering , under the flag of faux change. The stimulus package being touted by the Obama administration as the “fix” contains some of the very same tired old crappy social engineering wrapped in pork that put the economy in a tailspin to begin with.

    Any fiscal conservative from either party who supports this piece of crap needs their head examined.

    Being a Democrat means you can fail upward with little effort 70% of the time. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

  • The fact you concede there are fiscal conservatives in the Democratic party has made my day.

    I agree that there is a lot of total and absolute crap in this recovery bill. It’s sad really that someone could feel good about putting in some of this garbage. I hope McCain does what he said he would do and tell us who they are… tell us the names.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    There are absoltely fiscal conservatives in the Democrat Party….they are called blue dogs though you will never see them on MSNBC and that speaks volumes IMHO. There is only one thing Liberals hate more than Rush’s ranks and thats Blue Dogs in Congress.

  • Alter, what’s a Liberal?

  • G. Stone says:

    “The fact you concede there are fiscal conservatives in the Democratic party has made my day.”
    There are. Too bad they have to caucus with the speaker, majority leader and their minions.
    Blue dogs are a great regional election ploy. Seeking out and running Blue Dogs against Republicans who find it necessary to tack to the left or center has become a pretty good strategy.Unfortunately, after elected they are often asked to sit in the corner and shut up.

    Anyone who could support this Trillion Dollar stimulus bill should be marched out of town. Both Parties.
    You cannot justify this massive wad of pork. That includes welfare dressed up as tax cuts.
    This is not a stimulus bill, it is an opportunity for political payback as well as fund every group that empowers their very existence, that being the Democrat party. This bill alone implements 23 new Government programs. Every group who has ever supported the Democrat party or any leftist cause is licking their lips in anticipation of perpetual funding.

    850 billion dollars that is really 1.3 trillion with its debt service. Think about these numbers folks. Your children and their children will never get out from under this debt.

  • Alter of Freedom says:

    Its my understanding the BlueDogs in Congress are not going to support it. I may be wrong. BlueDogs like the GOP now are asked to “shut up and sit in the corner” because they have been outnumbered in the rank and file.
    FYI the new NY Senator is a blue dog…its hardly a regional ploy given there are those out West as well…..you know there are actually Democrat conservatives who are pro-life, pro-gun, and fiscally conservative and I just had dinner with about a dozen last week and posted a blog about the experience.
    I had asked then about “liberalism” and was told that if you were right of the DLC you were BlueDog and if you are left of the DLC you are a liberal. Imagine that.

  • Waxman is to blame for the shameful pork that is in this bill. Why, at this critical time, would you put stuff in a bill that would allow it to be demagogued?

    Stupid and sad.

Leave Comment