Lansdowne Incident a Harbinger of Things to Come?

By Loudoun Insider

There have been several high profile assaults and robberies in the last few months, and the Lansdowne murder and attempted murder of a jogging couple has raised fear levels to a new high.  The Lansdowne incident has generated comment levels not seen for some time at Loudoun Times Mirror and WaPo Loudoun Extra.  Now there appears to be another suspicious death in Leesburg as reported by the Loudoun Times Mirror

Is this a new trend for Loudoun County?  There is certainly some correlation between this uptick in crime and the downturn of the economy.  The comment threads linked to above have plenty of theories on this horrific crime, some linked to illegal immigrants, some to a group of teens selling door to door in the neighborhood, and some to the slain man’s former job as a CIA contractor.  

While some of the commenters have jumped to conclusions about the illegal immigrant angle, there is no doubt that a number of high profile crimes in northern Virginia have been committed by illegal immigrants.  As construction jobs disappear, it isn’t surprising that some of these illegals would turn to crime to make ends meet.  This isn’t racist or xenophobic, it’s cold hard fact that is obvious if you regularly follow the news.  Sorry if it is discomforting to some to hear it, but it is what it is. 

Everyone should remain vigilant and look out for others, especially those who aren’t as able to protect themselves.


Comments

  • tom says:

    to all the naysayers…. don’t pass judgment on others for wanting to protect themselves… the police are only here in a reactive mode and cannot predict, control or end crime… i have several friends at the nra, but don’t believe all of their rhetoric, but would not be here if it weren’t for protecting myself… it’s a sad, but true fact, that we have white, black, hispanic and other bad folks out there. it seems in loudoun county that the majority of reported crime in the local papers are committed by illegal aliens…. it’s not a pretty picture of our federal gevernment including both past and present…. carrying doesn’t prevent a stray bullet as mentioned above, especially for the 50 something year old man in the newberry condo area of sterling, but i will tell you this, it sure would make any feel better at night getting to and from their home…. in reference to the gated communities, there have been several high profile criminals recently arrested in my soon to be old community. it is only as good as the security and the residents within the community…. our politicians and police (sherriff) often turn a blind eye to the hoodlums of the world until a high profile incident occurs then it’s all about damage control.

  • tom says:

    rwn,

    when was the last time an intentional hit on someone left a person alive, caused a commotion loud enough for neighbors to call the sheriff, parked their vehicle in plain sight of neighbors, was precipitated by a beating, etc. you would make a wonderful police officer like mayberry, n.c……

  • Loudoun Lady says:

    ” I need more than shallow reassurances that LL’s gun fetish isn’t going to cause my community harm. “Trust me”, isn’t cutting the mustard. If LL’s 2A gun ends up in my child’s school through her carelessness I want her ass (legally) in jail”

    AFF, this is completely out of line. To insinuate that I would put children in danger is unbelievable. I have 2 children, I don’t take gun ownership lightly. You don’t know me and to accuse me of being careless and putting children at risk is disgusting but predicatable.

    AFF, please point to any evidence you have that I would ever put a child in danger. I have done nothing but promote safe and responsible gun ownership on this thread. It does not surprise me that you and Ed have resorted to personal attacks (ed’s being of the SEXIST variety), none of which you have aimed at any MEN.

    Hey women on this board, don’t express your opinions too strongly on TC or the Liberal men will take issue with your attitude and personally take you down. Same old tactics, can’t argue the facts so use the Saul Alinsky tactics of turning it personal. I see you all have learned well.

  • Loudoun Lady says:

    “The temptation for a housewife to leave a gun in a less than secure location “just for a second” while they run into school to unexpectedly pick up a sick child, or dash into Traffic Court to pay a forgotten ticket would be great.”

    Missed this, now women that carry are hairbrained housewifes. All I can say is WOW. Unbelievable. I hope you don’t talk to your wife, mother, sister or daughter this way. Whether you work or stay at home with your kids, this is an insult to all women.

    No mention of men being hairbrained, typical.

  • “A person truely interested in protecting life would look first at defensive solutions, not immediately advocate premptive death.”

    Ed, you lose again, because you are out of your league in this discussion. Until you have taken one of the courses that are readily available to anyone who wants one…you’ll remain dumbfounded and on the losing end of this discussion.

    Addressing your point above— the training classes (as well as my professional training) introduce individuals who aim to possess the power of a firearm to the numerous steps of escalating force, and address the final step in escalated force….deadly force.
    The entry levels of force??? That’s vigilance and awareness of your surroundings. That’s followed by an elevated presence– If you look unapproachable, those who are watching you for signs of weakness probably won’t do it if you look aware and capable.

    That’s only the first two levels of escalating force. Your ignorance of those levels defeats your participation in any debate until you’ve searched for the levels and memorized them. Your assertion that we all just start blazin’ is fiction, and can easily be shattered with the full list of those “levles” of force, and removing your emotion from the discussion.

  • “A person truely interested in protecting life would look first at defensive solutions, not immediately advocate premptive death.”

    Ed, you lose again, because you are out of your league in this discussion. Until you have taken one of the courses that are readily available to anyone who wants one…you’ll remain dumbfounded and on the losing end of this discussion.

    Addressing your point above— the training classes (as well as my professional training) introduce individuals who aim to possess the power of a firearm to the numerous steps of escalating force, and address the final step in escalated force….deadly force.
    The entry levels of force??? That’s vigilance and awareness of your surroundings. That’s followed by an elevated presence– If you look unapproachable, those who are watching you for signs of weakness probably won’t do it if you look aware and capable.

    That’s only the first two levels of escalating force. Your ignorance of those levels defeats your participation in any debate until you’ve searched for the levels and memorized them. Your assertion that we all just start blazin’ is fiction, and can easily be shattered with the full list of those “levels” of force, and removing your emotion from the discussion.

  • Investigate the “use of force continuum”.
    You may not be in a uniform, or even afforded some of the levels that professional law enforcement is afforded.. but there is a general conduct that applies to all who hold firearm ownership.
    A use of force continuum generally goes something like this:

    1. Escape, remove yourself from the risk. (I persoanlly liken this to being aware of your surroundings so you do not obliviously “walk into ” trouble.)
    2. Verbal command to stop.(but because everyone does not listen, we proceed)
    3. Physical command to stop. Maybe something like holding up your hand in the halt position and saying “back off” or “give me space.”
    4. Use of empty hand techniques.(otherwise known as martial arts–which also comes with a complete set of deadly force issues)
    5. Use of chemical weapons.
    (Here’s that mace option-which is preferred to actually killing anyone)
    6. Use of batons, clubs, keys, pens and the like.(all of these, like level 3 forward in this list, assume that your offender isn’t armed with a firearm- because that alone, escalates to immediate dealy force from you or him)
    7. Use of deadly force.

    As you can see, there are an awful lot of steps in between. All of these (as only half of the subject matter in the course) are covered in any reputable classroom for the operation of a firearm to protect one’s family or the general public.
    That other half of the subject matter in those classes? Well, they cover what happens when we’ve exhausted all other options and must fire to protect ourselves. First, they drill into your skull that you need to establish what, if anything, is directly behind your target…so in the event of a miss, you have a very real concept of what you’ll actually hit. And that’s just the first part they teach.

    Some of the biggest naysayers should sit thru these classes if only to identify the myths that they have used to express their ignorance.

  • Ed Myers says:

    BM first fault: assuming that everyone who owns a gun has and maintains professional training. Second fault is assuming that everyone needs a bravado booster by packing heat. I have lived longer than most here without ever getting into a situation where I could have used a gun even as a show of force. I don’t need a gun as a crutch and therefore the risk of accidents from having one around is too high for me. Maybe you run with a dangerous crowd and your situation is different. Someday my situation might change and I’ll get a gun again. That’s why I support 2A rights but reject the extremists who want to legislate that everyone must have a gun.

    BM, If you must measure a discussion in terms of winners and losers instead of enjoying learning from diverse opinions by sharing perceptions, then notice which side refuses to rationally discuss why they think investing in a gun and training is safer than investing in say defensive driving classes or safer cars.

    Name calling and feigned insults are what people resort to when one’s logic fails and emotions take over, right LL?

  • Ed, who has said that everyone must get a gun here??? No one that I could read. Sure there may be some wacky extremists somewhere that advocate that, but I do not. As stated earlier, everyone should select a self defense option that they are comfortable with – everything from nothing at all to concealed carry. This should be a choice we are entitled to as free Americans.

    You complain about the tone and tenor of this argument, yet you continually make overblown assumptions. You are just as guilty of hyperbole as some of the others here.

  • AFF says:

    LI- I apologize for embellishing and sensationalizing your statement. You set yourself up by endorsing “brandishing” a weapon, which as Monk and even LL pointed out, is a serious no no.

    (I think) I understand what you were ultimately suggesting- that it doesn’t hurt for people to know you are an armed household and one should be wary when answering the door late. I was just funning a little, although I would mention that when it is known that one has valuable guns in the house it can help make you a target for robbery- life experience there.

    Thanks for the NRA link, but I will pass. I used to be a member of the NRA (a gift) and had more than a few chances to review their, er, “literature”.

    Wolverine- point made and taken. We live in different worlds. You want to steal my car? The keys are in the ignition, probably along with my wife’s purse (I actually have asked her to break this habit- the purse that is).

    You want to steal something from our house? The doors are open, come in and help yourself, although sometimes we lock up at night.

    There was an attempted rape recently down the road, and we have an unsolved murder going more than 5 years back in addition to a missing persons case which probably involved foul play. Regardless, I have to acknowledge that the odds of a property crime happening to one of us would most likely happen where you live.

    I truly feel for the residents of older first generation suburbs similar to Sterling Park. People were sold the suburban american dream and what they got instead were the slums of the future.

    For the first time in american history more lower income people are living in these older suburbs while the cities have become more upscale desirable locales. The well documented middle class flight from the cities has reversed itself (which was predicted and pretty well documented too)

    In short, I don’t know how I would handle living with more crime around me and I’m not going to judge you if you decide to keep a gun around for self defense- if it ends up in the wrong hands though because of your carelessness, I want your ass.

    LL, save it. I read through this entire thread. With the exception of not endorsing brandishing at no point did you do you do anything but play lip service to gun safety.

    You wrote-

    “I’m with LI and BPM on arming yourself. It is not an overreaction and I suggest everyone take advantage of this right. If you think the mere possession of a gun, or the legal carrying of one escalates violence, you have a lot to learn.”

    Considering that the majority of murders in LoCo over the last 5 years involved relatives (husband, mother, husband, daughter/granddaughter) and most of the others involved acquaintances ( friend, childhood friend (whoops so sorry) lover, lover) your theory of guns always making your life safer is fucking shot- pun intended.

    Then you wrote-

    “Nobody is even arguing that gunholders have a responsibility be to knowlegable, that is your defense? My concern is idiots making laws against our 2A rights, they are the enemies, not the people.”

    Yup- you have no problem with responsibility, just only the kind of responsibility that you think is okay. When the public calls on gun owners to have a LEGAL responsibility, you call them the enemy.

    As Dan pointed out, one already has the legal responsibility to lock their gun up in their car when they are not present, so I’m sure you will have no problem with being required to have a trigger lock on it too? Right?

    I look forward to a detailed explanation of what passes as proper gun safety in your house as well as a list of what precautions your family takes to make sure your guns don’t fall into the wrong hands.

  • AFF says:

    Monk, I am very comfortable with your training and your listing of the proper use of deadly force. Unfortunately, any idiot can buy a handgun, not just the folks who know how to properly use them.

    How would you feel about some sort of required training in order to be able to purchase a handgun? (I realize that CCPs do)

  • 104… Harebrained people are members of both sexes. Some harebrained people carry and some don’t.

  • Ed Myers says:

    LI,
    Your comment below certainly sounded like you think having a gun on hand is a universal good for everyone:

    “I’m always well armed – it’s a prudent precaution to take. Remember, simply brandishing a weapon deters much more crime than firing one.”

    There are towns that have passed laws requiring gun ownership (Kennesaw, GA, Geuda Springs, KA) so its pretty easy to think you might be for that sort of thing with a statement like above. Thanks for clarifying that it is a choice not to own a gun.

    I don’t mind the tone of this discussion. And hyperbole and banter is sometimes needed to get to the edges of the issue so we can plumb the middle ground. I was pointing out LL’s emotional outburst as proof that BM was wrong to think that logic is what supports the pro-gun ownership position and emotion is the driving force for not owning a gun. The reverse is more likely true. Irrational fear drives some to purchase a gun without considering that for most citizens in Loudoun County that decision will slightly increase the risk of violent death in that household.

  • Wolverine says:

    Ed Myers and AFF have some good points with which I totally agree. They are preaching to the choir in that specific regard. We badly do need some practical solutions to our personal safety problems. Unfortunately the very nature of our political system and our politics seems to delay finding those solutions until some of us pay the utimate price for the current lack of them. I find it very difficult to simply sit back and wait patiently, especially when I find myself at the epicenter of a crime zone.

    I will admit that it is hard to pinpoint exactly how an armed citizen might be able to intervene in something like the Safeway shooting or a drive-by shooting. As I understand it, the Safeway shooting began when the shooter killed his ex-girlfriend. Unimpeded by anyone else, he then had time to chase down the new boyfriend and dispatch him in a separate location before turning the gun on himself. Everyone else ran for it or took cover. As a result, the shooter was given virtually a free hand to track down the second victim and dispatch him like a sheep in a slaughter house.

    Somehow I suspect that, if a Bulletproof Monk or a Dans had been there, for instance, that shooter might not have had such a free hand. This has indeed happened on occasion when a shooter started a slaughter in a restaurant or other venue. I had relatives of friends who died in a Texas restaurant a number of years ago. All they had for protection was some overturned tables. If only someone had been there with the courage and the means….

    If someone comes in to your neighborhood and starts shooting up the home of one of your neighbors, do you just dive for cover, call 911, and hope that your neighbor or his family members do not die before the police arrive or do you use my own skills and training to try to keep those deaths from happening? I throw that question back to both of you. What would you do if you had the firepower and skills to fight back?

    I guess when it comes down to it much depends on past experience. I once had a crazed guy with a heavy weapon banging right into my earhole, babbling away in a language I did not speak. The guy who saved my life did not call for help or reinforcements. He ended the thing right then and there, just the three of us on a very dark street. Bless that guy wherever he may be.

    I do understand your attitude toward weapons. Strangely enough, I don’t like them awfully much myself and always have a healthy respect for the inherent dangers. But there does come a time when you consider the alternatives and that fact that it is not just you in potential danger but also others whom you love and who do not have your defensive training and skills. You begin to feel a certain obligation.

    And AFF, about getting my ass. If you do not start locking up your car and if someone steals it and uses it in the process of harming my family, I just might come for your behind as well. Lock it up, pal, please. Security starts at home.

  • “Unfortunately, any idiot can buy a handgun, not just the folks who know how to properly use them.”

    We have to establish exactly which lot we’re speaking of. CCP people do have to go thru the training. Buyers, by and large…do not.

  • Good comeback, Wolverine!

  • John says:

    If you have NetFlix watch the movie “Survivors” with Robin Williams and Walter Mathow. A lot of parallels to what we are going through here. Same thing: downturn in the economy in 82, people getting laid off, crime going up, and people over reacting and getting armed. I do not think everyone should be armed. I think it is your right though and you should really think do you have the temperament to carry one. FYI I have conceal carry. I know I have recommended some of my friends not too because they are hot heads.

  • I’m the first to agree. Hotheads are probably bad choices for firearms. And I fully support the whole set of training principles be adhered to if this is their first weapon.
    Everyone who handles a sidearm (or shotgun, rifle or other) should understand that
    A. if you put forth that you’ll use it, mean it…
    B. if you do use it, know when to do that. Know what non-lethal means you have available to you, and employ them all –as your adversary allows you to. If he gives you no choice–be prepared to dispatch him.
    C. Know what you’re firing into , should you miss your intended target. This is no time to hit innocent bystanders. If you need to move to one side or the other to clear an area behind an obviously dedicated jagoff…do so prior to the shot.

  • AFF says:

    Wolverine- I really like some of what you are saying. I did some loose ends on taxes last night, and work is crazy this morning- I’ll try and check in midday.

    BPM- you too. I want all CCps to know that stuff in their sleep. Thanks.

  • Loudoun Lady says:

    I look forward to a detailed explanation of what passes as proper gun safety in your house as well as a list of what precautions your family takes to make sure your guns don’t fall into the wrong hands.

    - AFF

    I owe you no explanation of anything I do in my house, suffice it to say my better half has over a dozen years of training that BPM and Wolverine would be proud of. If you weren’t so nasty I might actually engage you in conversation, but when someone inclines that I would allow a child access to a handgun they have gone too far. Your children are more in danger from your lack of knowledge than they are any gun owner I know.

    Good Day AFF, I’ll be reminding the women on this blog of your and ed’s penchant for personal and sexist attacks on women. I have a long memory.

  • G. Stone says:

    How would you feel about some sort of required training in order to be able to purchase a handgun? (I realize that CCPs do)
    - AFF

    No. You just don’t get it.

  • G. Stone says:

    “That’s why I support 2A rights but reject the extremists who want to legislate that everyone must have a gun. ‘

    Like that is a real problem. You can count on one hand the number of places in America where you are required to own a firearm. Talk about a non-issue.

    If you want one , buy one and know you are responsible for its safe use. If you don’t want one the don’t get one. Just stop lecturing me because I chose to have one or two or three or……..

  • AFF says:

    Wolverine,

    First off, you got me on the cars. I would feel awful if a kid stole one, went joyriding and hurt someone. I suspect I would be disqualified from my auto insurance in addition to being libel. I hear you loud and clear- often one has to alter their habits and behavior for the general safety of the community and I am willing to do so.

    I relate to what I have heard from you in regards to your overall feeling towards guns. Similar to tractors, powertools, and fast cars, guns should be respected and part of that respect comes from the knowledge of the awful power you are dealing with.

    Nothing scares me more than watching some Yoyo’s eyes light up with power when they handle a weapon- you know the type. Camo wearing wanna be Army dudes who could never make it through basic training. My blood runs cold when I look at some of the characters exiting the local gun shops.

    As to the scenarios you posed, I just don’t know. I’m not very familiar with the Safeway situation, but it seemed to involve people who all knew each other from gang connections. I guess I’m just glad no innocent bystanders were shot and I wonder how a person could have intervened without greater risk to others.

    Same goes for the neighbor scenario- If I knew the neighbors well I would want to help, but my first instinct would be to protect my family which would involve staying at home in a defensive position. It would be very hard to sit on my hands next door if I knew someone was shooting up my elderly neighbors, so here’s to hoping neither one of us are ever in that position. I know one thing- I’d be glad I have a firearm in the house.

    I think I know what you are getting at so I slightly reframed the situations-

    Yesterday some nut walked into a nursing home in North Carolina and killed 7 or so elderly persons. Do I wish that one of those lovely old ladies had pulled a gun out from behind their pillow, unloaded 5 shots in a fist sized pattern right between the sicko’s nipples thus saving the lives of yesterday’s victims? Of course I do.

    Do I wish that on that awful day at VT Bulletproof, while touring the campus with a young relative and having forgotten to leave his CW at home, was able to plug Cho and save most those students lives? Hell yes!

    But once I put emotion aside and begin looking for causes (and possible solutions) I don’t think these are realistic outcomes to hope for, nor should they be anywhere near the first lines of defense- I think allowing students to have guns on college campuses is asinine, nor would I think arming the elderly residents of nursing homes to be a realistic idea. Much more carnage would result. Metal detectors, more cops on campus, anything- just keep the firearms away from the fratboy keg parties please.

    The very first question which comes to mind with all of the different situations we both laid out- where did these cretins get their guns? Cho, despite being seriously unbalanced, was able to walk in and legally buy a killing machine with a 50 round clip (posing another question raised to me by a good-ol-gun-owning-boy- Who in the hell needs a 50 round clip for “defense” other than a cop or a soldier?).

    The Safeway shooter was supposedly a gangbanger- how did he get his gun? I understand that if a person wants something badly enough there are ways to get anything, but most of these guys bought their guns legally, or bought them from someone else who bought them legally. I want laws to protect me by keeping guns out of their hands in the first place. I know this would be difficult, but I fault society (and the most powerful lobbying organization in the county) for not even trying.

    Don’t tell me you (not you personally Wolverine) have the interests of the public in mind when you object to being required to have a trigger lock on your gun when/if you leave it unattended in your car- some laws regulating gun ownership don’t seem like unnecessary burdens but many (cough cough, Stone) say otherwise.

    Are we supposed to trust that everyone intuitively knows proper handling of a handgun just because they have the money to buy one? I think the NRA has done a real disservice to public safety AND most regular gun owners by objecting to every gun regulation which has been brought to the table. Like the old guy asked me- Who in the hell needs a 50 round clip? Who in the hell goes hunting with an automatic weapon? (yea- I know about Ted)

    The common ground that I find on this thread is the desire for the safety our families. Some arm themselves to accomplish this desire, while others feel their safety would be better served by having less guns in their daily lives. We all have the same end goal, which gives me hope.

    Wolverine, I thank you for your reasoned tone and I look forward to our paths crossing someday.

    Monk,

    The question I had was geared towards the first time buyer of a handgun, not a CCP holder, which I understand does require classes and such. (I only hope the classes and training are as extensive as you suggest. If every gun owner took their responsibilities as seriously as you do and had half the knowledge you have displayed on this thread, we wouldn’t be having this discussion)

    So my question is- is there any type of litmus test (training, questions or otherwise) a person should have to pass before being allowed to purchase a handgun?

    For example- if a person can’t hit the side of a barn at close range with a handgun, should they be allowed to buy one? It doesn’t seem unreasonable to say, “Sorry. Here is a nice shotgun. Take a few classes on how to properly use a handgun and come back and see us.”

    With your training I’m sure you have come across a few armed idiots- is there any reasonable way to keep guns out of (just a few would be an improvement) their hands.

    True story- I walked into a neighbors house one afternoon and was greeted by the smell of gunpowder and the sight of a pissed off woman. The male resident of the house, a CWP holder and gun enthusiast was showing off his quick draw skills and had accidentally fired a round into the floor at the feet of the woman’s son- Does this guy really “need” to carry 3 guns. Does anybody “need” to carry 3 guns.

    The question I’m sure you can see I’m circling is- is their any law regulating gun ownership you would be okay with and if so, what might be a prudent one?

    (Um. Stone. I didn’t ask you, because I already know your answer- you just don’t get it)

    At the end of the day most of us following this debate are looking out for our families in addition to the families of our neighbors – except for Stone. As he selfishly said in #44, we are on our own. He is only looking out for himself and his family, to hell with our families. (F*ck you too dude).

    LL,

    I can’t say I was expecting any worthy contribution to the conversation from you, but I must admit to being surprised by your accusation of sexism. When I asked you for a general idea of what compromises gun safety in your house, I didn’t expect an answer- mainly because I don’t think you have an answer, other than trust me. (and my husband, well, he knows his stuff)

    I don’t trust you, so you’ll have to deal with me trying to insure the safely of my loved ones thru legislation. We don’t agree on much (er…anything), and I can see why you wouldn’t want to take the time to answer my broad question so I’ll pose an easier and more specific one- What precautions do you take to help insure a family member doesn’t use a gun against themselves?

    I had a couple of teenage peers end their lives with firearms, in addition to a 12 year old cousin. We have one the highest rate of teen suicide in the world. The question is highly relevant and surely has been posed to you before.

    Shoot- impress my with your preparation. Just don’t let that great memory of yours forget that I’m a gun owner too.

  • AFF…. As a few here know, I’m a big stickler for mental disorder screening on permits. If any part of the process should bear more scrutiny…that is the part I’d push for. Few also know that I had a niece at VT, and we tried for a number of hours to contact her. She was fine, BTW.

    But, alas…we live in a society that has not yet devised a way to look into a man’s soul. We also are doing a bang-up job of giving our kids everything, leaving expectations miles and miles high, frustrations towering anytime their immature needs aren’t met instantly.
    In short, we’re not raising adults anymore.
    I know 30 year old kids in men’s bodies.
    THAT may well be why we have an increase in “the fumbles”.
    I could get into my beliefs regarding mandatory two year service in the armed forces to get that training you speak of (ala Israel), but that probably wouldn’t seat well with you either. :)

  • Wolverine says:

    AFF — As best I can recall, the Safeway shooting was the result of a love triangle rather than being strictly a gang affair. In fact, if I am not misremembering, I believe the second victim (the new boyfriend) was non-Hispanic. I do not remember where the shooter got his piece — probably black market.

    Talk about something hitting home. My better half knew both the shooter and the dead girl. Now, my better half has been to many not very nice places with me and seen a lot of what I’ve seen. She, in fact, sometimes covered my back on some mean streets. But when we first received news of that Safeway shooting, she was in personal shock. This from someone who grew up in a time and place where you were practically born with a shooting iron in your hand.

    Sad, sad, sad. In the “old days” we used to come home from abroad to enjoy a peaceful , restful time in the USA. Now we seem at times to live in a sort of battlefield in our own hometown. You cannot even live in a North Carolina nursing home at age 98 and escape it. I can relate to just about everyone on this thread — you, Stone, Monk, Loudoun Lady, and the others. We may come at this thing from different directions, but we do have one thing in common: we live in a crazy time under some crazy pressures; and we are all looking for answers.

  • Loudoun Lady says:

    Wolv and BPM can continue to engage you AFF. Personally I think you are a lost cause and a bore. I will take care of my family and you can take care of yours, although some of the information you have revealed here leaves one scratching their head, because in our house we lock our cars. I also take my purse out of the car, I learned that in Jr. HS. Preventing tragedy and crime starts with the little things, so if you don’t have the common sense to lock your car I’m not sure you are going to comprehend safety on a variety of other issues.

    When your car is stolen, or a purse or Ipod or other valuable is lifted you will get a nice little lecture from the Sheriff. Perhaps this has already happened and it didn’t sink in, which would not surprise me. Prevention comes in all forms, so please remember to lock your doors in your home too, or did you not know that either? I learned that in elementary school.

  • More info about the Lansdowne home invasion robbery at the local news websites. Very disturbing trend between the Lansdowne beating death/assault, the Leesburg murder, and the Lansdowne home invasion.

  • BM, I am totally with you on two years of service after high school graduation.

  • G. Stone says:

    So my question is- is there any type of litmus test (training, questions or otherwise) a person should have to pass before being allowed to purchase a handgun?

    NO !

    The constitution does not have a litmus test. I know some simply want to ignore the 2 nd amendment however, it exists. You don’t have to like it but you do have to acknowledge it exists.

  • G. Stone says:

    “True story- I walked into a neighbors house one afternoon and was greeted by the smell of gunpowder and the sight of a pissed off woman. The male resident of the house, a CWP holder and gun enthusiast was showing off his quick draw skills and had accidentally fired a round into the floor at the feet of the woman’s son- Does this guy really “need” to carry 3 guns. Does anybody “need” to carry 3 guns.”

    Your friend is a nit wit. There are nit wits in the world, stay alert.

    The only one qualified to determine how many guns I “need” is me. It is none of your business or the business of the state to interject yourself(s) into the process of determining my needs for anything, most notably those things specifically enumerated as a right.

    I am sorry that freedom scares you so.

  • Wolverine says:

    Nitwit isn’t a strong enough word. Anyone who practices quick draw with a loaded piece in a room with others present ought to be a candidate for a visit by the proverbial guys in white coats. Not just limited to private gun owners either. I recently read about a police officer — in California, I believe — who was killed accidentally when one of his buddies was showing off with his weapon inside the jail building.

    I recall a time on a military range in rifle training as a very young man when I was so elated by a very good cluster that I momentarily took my hand off the rifle. For some reason the rifle started to turn sideways on its swivel. I got a reaming out from the presiding non-com that I have not forgotten in all the decades since. Monk and edmundburkenator may be spot on about some obligatory years of service. All of us could use a period in our lives when we have to learn some hard and rather embarrassing lessons about real life.

  • Wolverine, I got a similar reaming when I used to shoot competitively. My dad had zero tolerance for anything but complete focus when a gun was in your possession.

  • AFF says:

    Monk,

    I would agree that mental health screening would be an excellent way to start cracking down on loonies with firearms. I would further agree with your assessment of our current youth- entitled, immature..I believe you penned a piece on your blog a few months back- as I had recently spent some time on a college campus it struck a cord with me.

    I would go one step further in my criticism, as it’s not just the young who seem to have forgotten that wealth is accumulated through hard work

    I’d have no problem with some sort of national service requirement (although modeling it on Israel might be putting a square peg in a round hole). From my conversations with top brass they are very happy with an all volunteer army and wouldn’t want the burden of dealing with yoyo’s who didn’t want to be there (not to mention the cost of training said yoyos)

    Perhaps some form of an Americorp option? Which of course would be difficult (and very costly) to implement (I don’t like wasting tax dollars either)

    We are closer to agreeing on this topic than you imagined- How about a requirement of 1000 hours of community service before one can get a VA drivers license or a learners permit?

    Um. Stone- not a friend, but certainly a nitwit. A well armed CWP holding neighboring nitwit- a poster child for sensible gun laws, and an NRA member to boot. He almost killed his stepson, who went on to do a tour in Iraq.

    I’m sure he believes, as you seem to, that any laws regulating any weapon are an infringement on his rights. I would assume, the intentional nuance penned by our founding fathers in the Constitution is lost on him too.

    Good luck buying that rocket propelled grenade at Purcellville Guns.

  • G. Stone says:

    ” the intentional nuance penned by our founding fathers in the Constitution is lost on him too. ”

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Not a lot of nuance here. If only we would learn to read the lines as they were written, the documents authored by and the public statements uttered by the framers leading up to the inception of the constitution, we would be much better off as a nation. Chasing penumbras is how we got where we are today.

  • Wolverine says:

    AFF — You’re probably very right when you cited the opinions of those top brass guys on obilgatory service. Can’t forget that time at Cua Viet when some Marine objected to being anywhere near a battle zone — especially a place where the RPG’s and mortars from the DMZ paid a visit every day — and went around with a peace symbol painted on the front of his helmet. I don’t think his CO was very happy having to deal with that guy. (Those were the days when some people got drafted into the USMC.)

    Maybe we can find something in between which will serve to give young people a strong sense of reason and responsibility. The military for those who want it. National Guard perhaps? Some other work experience for those who don’t. Either way, however, I fear we would have to endure a whole lot of jabbering and complaining about civil rights and personal liberty.

  • Loudoun Moderate says:

    Any type of mandatory public service, military or civilian, would result in the same inequities as the draft: the privileged and well-connected would still find a way to get out of the obligation. I remember in college in England, years ago, one of my fellow students, an Isreali girl, announced she would be leaving at the end of the week. She had been called to report immediately to serve her time in her country’s military. This was mid-term and she said there were no exemptions.

  • G, what do you define as “arms”. Do you draw a line somewhere?

  • AFF says:

    Stone- Not everyone has the ability to see color either.

    I’m sure others have pointed out to you that the Oxford English dictionary defines the term “to bear arms” as- “to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight” going back to about 1300AD

    Besides, what are arms? …. and there’s the pesky “well regulated militia” part.

    Thankfully, the interpretation of the Bill of Rights will be left to those who have spent a lifetime looking for the nuances in what to many, merely looks black and white.

    Wolverine- Surely there would be some whining and expensive legal wrangling, but the more I think about a national service requirement the more I come back to the cost of implementation.

  • G. Stone says:

    “Thankfully, the interpretation of the Bill of Rights will be left to those who have spent a lifetime looking for the nuances in what to many, merely looks black and white.”

    Two words- Heller Decision.

  • G. Stone says:

    “Besides, what are arms? …. and there’s the pesky “well regulated militia” part. ”

    Get yourself a copy of the Federalist Papers.

    Your a member of that well regulated militia.

  • AFF, the original meaning of the well regulated militia referred to all able bodied citizens.

  • G. Stone says:

    “G, what do you define as “arms”. Do you draw a line somewhere?”
    - edmundburkenator

    Now comes the part where you tell me I can’t have an ICBM in my backyard.

    I define “arms” the same way the founders did. Those “arms” carried by a human being for the purposes of defending himself.
    Almost all members of the militia provided their own personal firearms. These firearms were usually of better quality than those issued to soldiers of the time.

    Save me the speech about grenade launchers and tanks in the driveway. Its silly.

  • Wolverine says:

    AFF — No doubt the cost would be heavy, but it may be a cost we really need to bear. I have several relatives and friends with long teaching records at the high school and junior high school levels. They tell me I would be amazed at the negative plummet in respect and attitudes among today’s students. The number of those students one would consider to be respectful, studious, and serious about their academics appears to be sadly diminishing. Moreover, it seems not to make a great deal of difference whether the school is in a poorer district or a wealthy one. Nor is this limited to particular ethnicities. Teachers as a group seem to be getting rather frustrated by the changing ratio of discipline time vs teaching time. I don’t like taxes any better than the next guy, but we have got to change this somehow.

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