The Loudoun BOS voted 6-3 for the the highest rate in the region (although PWC’s combined property and fire levies are greater) in the midst of significant economic turmoil for residents and businesses. Waters and Delagudio were two of the no votes, wanting deeper cuts. Buckley was the other no vote, buying into the “schools will be butchered” hysteria, and wanting a higher tax rate.
In a time when nearly all businesses are ailing, and somehow the County Assessor thought that their commercial property values stayed the same or even went up, they will be hit hard by this increase. Likewise, although the average residential tax bill will be reduced, this means a tax increase for a sizable number of residents. Much more paring, especially of the bloated school budget, needed to be done. Oh well – hold on to your wallets, business men and women!
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Apr 07th by Loudoun Insider
Buckley is a tool.
Loudoun Lady
on April 7th, 2009During last evenings public input session, there was one speaker advocating for a reduction in spending in order to avoid a tax increase. Every other person there was concerned with school boundaries, power line easements and only a few for increased school spending.
I urged the board to postpone the budget vote for another week in order to use that time to find additional spending cuts. That request was obviously ignored.
Lets remember who stood for fiscal responsibility and who didn’t when it comes time to select our next board. Supervisors Delgaudio and Waters withstood the massive misinformation campaign, hysteria and political nonsense to stand firmly on the side of taxpayers and small business. Had the other members of this board considered only half of Supervisor Delgaudio’s motions for reduced spending millions could have been saved.
Others who should be commended for taking a principled stand for Loudouns citizens are those members of the LCRC who worked hard to promote fiscal responsibility. Chairman Glenn Caroline did a great job by having the LCRC focus on the Budget, our deficit and Spending. This committee under Glen’s leadership was committed to the issue of fiscal responsibility and fundamental fairness in the midst of very tough economic times. He was quoted on WTOP yesterday-
“This isn’t a Republican or Democratic issue but rather one of fairness and responsibility,” said LCRC Chairman Glen Caroline. “Now more than ever, we need our leaders in Leesburg, Richmond and Washington watching the dollars they are spending and being as frugal and prudent with their pennies as the American taxpayer is with their budget. Anything less will have consequences.”
Given the Counties budget deficit it is most likely the LCRC will again be leading the charge for responsible proportionate levels of spending as well as fair and equitable taxation.
Those elected officials from both the BOS and the LCSB should remember one thing. When voters given a choice they reject higher taxes and unsustainable levels of spending. The rejection of the meals tax is a prime example.
Having advocated for higher taxes in the midst of a deep recession is both economically and politically a very bad idea.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009Unlike some on this site, I prefer to deal in facts. A look at the budget adoption item on the Loudoun website will reveal that the FY 10 budget reduces operating expenditures for the county government and schools by about $46 million, or about 5%. This is fairly impressive when you consider the amount of upward pressure presented by fringe costs, population growth, etc.
A good reference point would be to compare the budget to FY 09, when operating expenses increased by about $42 million in a similar growth environment. In other words, the BOS managed to reverse last year’s trends, even though the same pressures were present.
It’s very easy to carp about the tax rate. However, it cannot be denied that there is real pain in this budget, especially on the county government side. I think the majority should be commended for pursuing a difficult middle course.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Let’s be clear:
Burton, York, Kurtz, McGimsey and Burk: HIGHER TAXES.
Buckley: EVEN HIGHER TAXES
Waters & Eugene: LOWER TAXES FOR LOUDOUN
more of the same
on April 7th, 2009more of the same -
As we’ve discussed ad naseum, there is a difference between the tax rate and actual tax bill. The $1.245 rate will result in lower residential tax bills.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009nobody’s average Alfred. A lot of assessments in my area didn’t go down “on average” and folks will be paying more and more.
more of the same
on April 7th, 2009My calcuations indicate that per-pupil spending will still be ridiculously high at $12,422, even when using the inflated enrollment growth prediction of 2,500 students for next year. Compare that to FY 2000 when the county spent a fiscally responsible $6,890 per pupil and it is obvious the school budget is still at least $120 million too fat.
Good job sticking up for the taxpayers, supervisors Waters and Delgaudio!
HFTB
on April 7th, 2009Alfred,
My property taxes will go UP $1,688.04 because they raised the tax rate.
sally
on April 7th, 2009I want to thank the BOS for reducing my taxes this year. Not an easy task in this economic environment. As for those looking to slash services more, there is no reason to blast us back to the Stone age.
Thank goodness cooler heads prevailed when Waters proposed 100M of new spending on school construction. If that went through there would really be something to bitch about.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009sally, as you know the entire County government is conspiring against you. Frankly, I am surprised they didn’t raise your taxes even more.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009See Alfred, Sally is decidedly “not average”
BO, cute but it Loudoun would have been strong financially in the long run if we’d cut more from the budget (like a bike coordinator, etc) and reduced the rate more. Waters and Eugene were dead-solid-right on fiscal matters.
more of the same
on April 7th, 2009I agree about the bike coordinator position, what a boondoggle. But 100K doesn’t make as much of an impact as would have the Waters 100M increase she tried to push.
Also, if someone stands alone with Delgaudio that ain’t something to brag about.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009eugene is eugene, but you can’t deny that he’s right on these issues for sure.
more of the same
on April 7th, 2009Right on what issues? He lost every cut but 4 he tried to make, which some news outlet listed as 50 something. Hell part of his cuts were to eliminate libraries. He’s not taken seriously. Entertaining sure, but he’s not a serious threat to anything.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009This budget could hurt the business community that saw on average their assessments go up some substantially. Even getting Raytheon to consolidate here won’t be enough to offset the the businesses that will go out of business. Further Raytheon is not creating many new jobs or homes sales in the Northern virginia as they are only creating 100 new jobs And with Obama’s defense slashing Raytheon could see a major reduction in new government contracts. Which would hurt the economy further in northern va. and Loudoun http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/04/06/ST2009040604064.html?sid=ST2009040604064
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009Blackout-
Bully for you…my taxes went up $200!!
Was the fiscally irresponsible Lori Waters still harping about pushing up HS-6? How long will she beat that dead horse? I hope she didn’t stalk off in blubbering tears again when she didn’t get her way.
What a professional.
vacliff
on April 7th, 2009Cliff looks like they reduced your assessment too much last year and this is the way the county wants their money back ha ha ha
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009Alfred, I don’t see anything impressive about a 5% reduction in the LCPS budget, considering the majority of the BOS’s first inclination was to go with the 1.29 rate which meant virtually no cuts for schools but up to 10% for other depts. This budget is nothing to brag about, Scott York is quoted as saying “It’s only going to get worse, so be prepared.” To this I say – DUH! What a dumbass, it’s getting worse so York makes it worse and sticks to an unrealistic budget in a faltering economy, with plummeting home values and historically high foreclosures.
Loudoun Lady
on April 7th, 2009BlackOut,
I am sure you are tickled pink that you have the clout in the County to be one of the ones whose assessment goes down. You don’t think the assessments are calculated to minimize the screaming of some, then you don’t really understand the County government.
I don’t think you would be happy if YOUR assessment was going up more than $1600. And there are a lot of people like me, some who are struggling to hold onto their homes– you don’t strike me as one who has any empathy.
I am frankly shocked that the county would up the value of my home this year. My taxes went up last year, too. Should have appealed that, but I was too busy with all my other litigation.
And you may think it “humorous” how this County has been vindictive and unfair. Think that says a lot about you, and very glad you have no power over me, because I can see you have some issues, too– with your obsessive attacks on Lee simply because he disagrees with you–or should I say, disagreed with you on your big issue, HCA.
sally
on April 7th, 2009more of the same -
As we’ve discussed ad naseum, there is a difference between the tax rate and actual tax bill. The $1.245 rate will result in lower residential tax bills.
- Alfred E. Newman
Alfred with all due respect , your outlook is both narrow and short.
see my previous example on the previous thread detailing what happens, down the road.
This whole tax rate V. net taxes paid is political slight of hand.
The BOS just raised our tax rate by 9.21% you can spin that anyway you want. But it is what it is, a tax increase. Further, it is not known what % of taxpayers will get a reduction in taxes paid.many are going to take in on the chin on the bottom side of a recession. This was stupid public policy, period. The 1 or 2 year ramifications for this fiscal shortsightedness are going to be painful.
When times are good, they want to raise the tax rate. When times are bad, they want to raise the tax rate.
I can hear the taxocrats now. Next year, when and if we are in a recovery, their pitch will be -Hey we raised taxes by 9.21% during a recession ,surely we can raise them at least by that much now that things are looking up. The same people saying this board was responsible will be touting an equally responsible tax hike the next budget cycle. The appetite for other peoples money never ends.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009Sally – If you’re taxes are going up by $1,688.04, then your assessment has increased by $167,754! What did you do, build a guest house next to your mansion?!!!
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009So G, how about going after Corey Stewart for raising Prince William’s taxes even higher? Oh, yeah, I forgot – you like him because he has an R after his name.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009“When times are good, they want to raise the tax rate. When times are bad, they want to raise the tax rate.”
Straight from the proposed budget, here’s Loudoun’s tax rates since 2005:
2005 – $1.04
2006 – $0.89
2007 – $0.917
2008 – $1.14
2009 – $1.245
This site is really a “fact Free zone,” isn’t it?
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009No, did not build anything, Al. Planted some trees, and put new gravel in my driveway…
But you are forgetting, the tax rate went up–not just the value of my home.
Increasing the tax rate is what caused my tax to go up.
My home only went up slightly–a few thousand dollars. Supposedly the rest of Blue Ridge dropped 14%, but many of us out here anyway are seeing the value increase, instead of drop.
sally
on April 7th, 2009So G, how about going after Corey Stewart for raising Prince William’s taxes even higher? Oh, yeah, I forgot – you like him because he has an R after his name.
- Alfred E. Newman
Alfred
If I lived in PWCO I would have a beef. However, I don’t so I don’t.
Focus please, We are talking about LOCO.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009sally, lee and I go way back, you don’t know the half of it.
How much was in this budget for bogus litigation? Maybe that’s an area that needs to be looked at.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009BlackOut, you are right, a lot of money wasted on stupid litigation. Why do they need two county attorneys to observe one county attorney make an argument in court?
From a Politico article about DOJ misconduct in Stevens case:
“I don’t think there’s anything worse than our government putting on false evidence, manufacturing evidence, to get the upper hand,” Brendan Sullivan said.
link:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20992.html
It IS a waste of money (and abuse of power) to litigate when you have to manufacture evidence to win.
sally
on April 7th, 2009Alfred, don’t go on about this site being a fact free zone. You were playing fast and loose with the facts about the surrounding jurisdictions’ tax rates in the last property tax thread and you never acknowledged when I proved you wrong.
This marks the fourth straight year that taxes have gone up for Loudoun. You’d think that the BOS would recognize that and look for better ways to raise revenue than raising property taxes yet again. I don’t live in Loudoun, and I don’t know if Loudoun has a balanced budget requirement like we do in Fairfax, but I would think a budget freeze would be the best thing to keep spending down without requirement a tax increase.
Brian W. Schoeneman
on April 7th, 2009All, this site should look into the Madison litigation, where we have spent upwards of a million dollars, just to punish an owner, to prevent her from building with no justification.
This case should have been settled a long time ago, and the Board should look into it, and settle immediately.
sally
on April 7th, 2009Alfred E.,
Do you understand that if a homeowner assessment did not decrease by more than 8.4% then that homeowner will be paying higher taxes? Why would you assume Sally’s assessment went up that much? Your comment #3 about the upward pressure presented by “fringe” costs (we assume you mean fringe BENEFITS) is indicative of the LCPS entitlement mentality that taxpayers should continue to pay the full cost of their lavish benefits package.
HFTB
on April 7th, 2009Brian, when did you “prove me wrong?” LI even uodated the article.
All local governments have to balance their budgets, including Loudoun. Considering that the 2010 budget actually goes down (see my initial post), that doesn’t seem like much of an answer. A flat budget would require an even bigger tax rate increase due to declining assessments. Like it or not, the property tax is the only major source of revenue that the reactionaries in Richmond will give counties.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 20092005 – $1.04
2006 – $0.89
2007 – $0.917
2008 – $1.14
2009 – $1.245
This site is really a “fact Free zone,” isn’t it?
- Alfred E. Newman
Four out of five years the rate increased ranging from 2 to 25%. Which leads me to my question- And your point is ?
05 to 06 reduction of 15%
06 to 07 increase of 2%
07 to 08 increase of 25.5%
08 to 09 increase of 9.21%
So, which way is the trend going ? up or down ?
It is a fact that the rate has increased 75% of the time.
Thank you for helping me make my case.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009It’s physically impossible for Sally’s tax bill to increase by $1,688 without a sharp increase in assessments, at least $100,000. That’s just math, guys.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009You aren’t very good at math Alfred, and you certainly do not understand how increasing the tax rate increases the taxes for many.
sally
on April 7th, 2009The bottom line is what comes out of someone’s pocket to pay the tax man. Newman is right the rate does not provide a clear reflection on the amount of taxes.
We’ve all seen the cycle. Depending on how someone argues. Heck a few years ago several BOS members were arguing they cut taxes, but in reality the assessments were skyrocketing, as the tax rate went down. In effect, tax rate down, but huge tax increase.
Now we see a similiar crowd crowing about the biggest tax increase we’ve ever seen. In reality, a lot of folks out of pocket taxes are going down, including mine.
Result, ya it’s very easy to be loose with the facts.
(sally, you should take your advice to heart: “It IS a waste of money … to litigate when you have to manufacture evidence to win.”)
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009Stoner, your numbers mean nothing without analyzing the effect rates have on assessments.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009G, I was just pointing out how you’re statement was demonstrably false. Loudoun did not raise the rate every year, contrary to what you said. Now, if you want to argue about the tax bill I’m game, but that means that you must acknowledge that the assessment is a dependent variable, which means that is year’s rate is a tax cut based on the overall assessment.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009BlackOut,
I proved that the County made up evidence and that is why the case settled. You are simply a jerk. In my ag district case they insisted the ordinance said something the actual words did not support. They made up laws too. Political persecution, that is for countries, not the United States of America.
You don’t care one whit about this County or fairness. As long as you get your political pound of flesh, oh, and a few $$’s.
You should change your name to BlackedOut, since you are so good at closing your eyes to TRUTH.
sally
on April 7th, 2009The small AVERGE tax cut this year does not even begin to wipe out the huge tax hikes during the housing bubble, nor has the resulting government spending bubble been deflated. You and Alfred E. are very short-sighted only comparing this year to last.
HFTB
on April 7th, 2009Alfred, you wrote in your first comment: “So, Loudoun taxes higher than Arlington? Montgomery? I seriously doubt it.”
I then posted all of the rates from all of the surrounding counties, including Arlington and Montgomery, all of which were lower.
The only exception was PWC, but that’s only if you include their fire tax as part of the property tax assessment.
Brian W. Schoeneman
on April 7th, 2009Stoner, your numbers mean nothing without analyzing the effect rates have on assessments.
- BlackOut
The rates are a figure used to compute taxes, the rates do not have an effect on the assessment itself. The rate as evidenced by todays vote is set well after assessments are set using other factors.
Your statement is therefore incorrect.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009sally, let’s stay on the tax rate. I made a simple observation and question. I wondered how much of our taxes go to defending bogus litigation. It’s a legitimate question/observation. Let’s just leave it at that, no one wants to hear about your damn ag issue or the Madisons AGAIN. Let’s drop it for the sake of this discussion.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009Alfred, an increased tax rate cannot result in a lower tax bill, period. What lowered the tax bills for some in this county was a drop in assessed value. A variety of characteristics goes into the assessment, not just a matter of what’s built on the land. Changes in the area can affect it, too, changes that aren’t necessarily *on* someone’s land. For a person so concerned with “fact-free zones” you are swift to engage in factless surmise yourself. You have no idea what caused certain owners’ assessments to go up unless you’ve seen the assessment. If you had, you’d have said so by now.
It’s not a bad thing to want to keep taxes low and government spending down. Unless, of course, you’ve got some other political axe to grind.
Greg Stone, interesting analysis of Alfred’s tax rate table. Quite the sharp incline in the trend line when this Board was elected, eh?
Ric James
on April 7th, 2009Brian, why wouldn’t you include Prince Wm’s fire tax? Loudoun funds fire and rescue out of its general rate, so you have to include it to make an accurate comparison.
As for the earlier discussion, the topic was whether Loudoun has the highest rate. It does not. I don’t need to say anyything else on that, I don’t think.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Blackedout with too much Kool Aid,
You brought it up. Bring it up again, and I will be sure to respond.
sally
on April 7th, 2009Wow. You guys are seriously looped. The assessment has no impact on tax bill? Huh?
Look, if a government is going to hold revenue at a certain point then it needs to adjust its rates to generate said revenue. Loudoun cut expenditures, maybe not as much as some would have liked, and was therefore able to produc a budget that relied on less revenue. If you don’t believe me then go to the website.
The argument should not be over the tax rate – that’s the kind of red herring that led to the mess in DC. It should be about the kind of government and school system you want to see going forward. Wasting your time fighting over one half of the equation makes no sense.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Newman, if you’re going to call people out for not being precise with their facts, you have to be precise with your facts. I quoted what you wrote. What you wrote was wrong. You still refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong.
Regardless, whenever there is a tax rate increase there will be people who see their taxes go up. Not every home is going to lose value, even in this market. Those people have a right to be angry about seeing their taxes go up, especially in this economy.
Brian W. Schoeneman
on April 7th, 2009Stoner, are we really here to argue semantically mathematics?
You are correct the rate was set after the assessments, because assessments are part of the equation. Follow along, take out your box of rocks and count with me. Remember you need to be worried about Tax with a capital T, that’s what comes out of your pocket.
A simple equation:
Tax = tax rate*(assessment/100)
Example 1:
1000 = $1 * (100,000/100)
Example 2:
1000 = $.50 * (200,000/100)
The tax rate could have been cut in half and the assessment doubled and we would have seen no affect on Taxes.
Would you be crowing then about a massive Tax cut? Probably.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009Brian, I’ve got nothing to correct. Prince William has a higher rate, Arlington and Montgomery higher tax bills. Why don’t you admit to being wrong about Prince William?
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Alfred,
Why don’t you admit that you cannot add and subtract or multiply tax rates?
sally
on April 7th, 2009Brian,
“The Code of Virginia (Title 58.1-3201) provides for the assessment of real property at 100% of fair market value. Fair market value is the probable amount a property would sell for today if exposed to the market for a reasonable period.”
It’s supposed to be fair. Some will see an increase and some will see a decrease. Some may question their assessment, but by law it’s supposed to be fair and accurate.
The real argument is about how much we PAY in taxes, that’s were the energy should be. Not arguing about an ambiguous tax rate.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009sally, what is your 2008 assessment and what is the new assessment for 2009? We can settle this very easily. BTW, I’ve noticed that your favorite response when cornered is abuse. Where’d you learn that, the Dick Cheney School for Message Management?
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Newman, now I know why I get so much abuse from sally.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 200952, no I was just responding to your demands that people admit mistakes! I pulled an alfred on you. I can add and subtract and multiply my tax rate, and don’t need you walking me through it. Impossible to go up that much, he says!
And you and Blacked-out with the Kook Aid are the ones attacking here!
sally
on April 7th, 2009Here is the point how many could of sold their homes when the homes were assessed a the highest. Probably very few. So during those years most of us over paid.
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009OK then, let’s assume that sally’s assessment stayed flat. For that to generate a $1,700 increase in her tax bill would require an assessment of about $1.6 million. And sending your kids to private school, too. You’re really hurting.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Its pure and simple: a nickel is not enough. They could have and should have cut more.
more of the same
on April 7th, 2009Wow. You guys are seriously looped. The assessment has no impact on tax bill? Huh?
I for one never said anything that resembles this statement. Your on another page.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009The tax rate could have been cut in half and the assessment doubled and we would have seen no affect on Taxes.
I don’t know how else to say this. No Shit!
I know how it works. Everyone here knows how it works Professor Dip Shit.
Remember you need to be worried about Tax with a capital T, that’s what comes out of your pocket.
You are a master of the obvious.
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009Greg Stone, interesting analysis of Alfred’s tax rate table. Quite the sharp incline in the trend line when this Board was elected, eh?
- Ric James
ric:
Alfred’s numbers came back to bite him in the ass in more ways than one.
As usual you picked up on the important aspect of this.
This board with its Democrat majority is acting in a fiscally irresponsible manner.
I don’t know how else to put it- Raising Tax Rates at the bottom of an economic downturn is counterproductive in both the short and long terms. More simply put- Its Stupid !
The rest is noise and Spin!!
G. Stone
on April 7th, 2009Wow, it took a while but I think we’re close to using the same math book now. So we can now disregard #32 and work on real issues.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009There is no doubt that school expenditures have increased at a much higher rate than inflation plus student growth. I could care less about rates and assessed values at this point (especially after seeing you all fight about it!) – our government spending went through the roof during the boom years, much more than it had to. it now must be trimmed back to where it should have stayed all along. It will be tough but it must be done.
Loudoun Insider
on April 7th, 2009LI, I agree with you completely. No one seems to want to hear that all this carping about tax rates is immaterial. The important question is what services people want and how they want to cut. I think you should have a thread asking people to come up with cuts. It takes about $8 million to reduce the tax rate by one penny, so have at it!
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009Oh, and G, my ass feels just fine, thanks. Your statement was:
“The rates are a figure used to compute taxes, the rates do not have an effect on the assessment itself.”
That may be true, but the rate and the assessment are the two variables that produce the tax bill. Denying one of them makes no sense at all.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 7th, 2009This thread is why I love this site…
edmundburkenator
on April 7th, 2009I would have begun the school budget discussion at 10%, probably heading to 15. 15% may have been a bit much in one year, so I’d be looking at 10% followed by 10% the following year. Put massive pressure on the School Board to get rid of Hatrick and his cronies and really start reforming the school system. That’s the only place where significant savings can be realized.
Loudoun Insider
on April 7th, 200966 is finally a comment that makes sense.
The vitriol for the Supervisors who voted for a budget is partly undeserved and non-constructive. Why are we in a situation that schools cost so damn much? Because previous boards, dating back to the George Barton approved wildass development, flung all over our county, with no long range plan and with no consideration of long-term O&M of schools, fire, etc. “But the developer proffered a school”…BS…the developers proffered sites, and typically the sites were only a band-aid to the population growth from the previous development, and did little to address anticipated population growth. Which is in part why you have a school district that has run itself with autonomy, and why you had more people focused on school districts than budgets last night. Are living the disaster created by residential development patterns of the past. We have school planning staff that is incompetent, and we have Supervisors who have little leeway to maneuver on budget, without significantly hitting the operating budgets of schools and public safety.
They should put more pressure on schools, but budgetary pressure alone won’t do it. Our planning operation is completely FUBAR, and without addressing it comprehensively, we’ll keep repeating this same argument over and over. Like we have for the past few years.
Blaze N. Saddles
on April 7th, 2009AEN is trying to help you guys to stop fixating on the rate. You shouldn’t care too much about it in itself. All other things being equal, it will go down in good times and up in bad times, in inverse relationship to property values. It’s a devilishly complicated and opaque tax system that ought to be ash-canned, but it’s what we’ve got in Virginia. Channel some of your reformist energy to getting rid of it. Not all other things are equal or stay in equipoise in relation to each other, of course, and, to be responsible about tax policy, the citizens and the supervisors have to factor in population changes, demographics (how many school age kids, for example), infrastructure demands, public safety issues, etc.
(BTW, If Sally’s reported increase is not due to an increase in assessed value, but merely an application of the new rate to a steady or declining value, her house is worth at least roughly a cool million in these troubled times of eroding home values (if 9th grade algebra still serves). Sally, you’re doing better than so many folks these days. Although I can imagine what the estate was worth a couple of years ago. . . )
NoVA Scout
on April 7th, 2009Too bad those two paragons of fiscal responsibility couldn’t vote for a major tax paying business -Broadlands Hospital. How nice it would be to get that $10 million in tax money every year. Waters and Delgaudio certainly talk the talk – but when the chips are down – they do not support good financial gains for this county.
Hypocrites R Us
on April 7th, 2009Please, not the hospital crowd again! That annual tax figure keeps going up with every mention! They still have an offer on the table from INOVA to buy up their Route 50 site at cost and build there.
Loudoun Insider
on April 7th, 2009How come when you ask the county what is the equalizaton tax rate from last year to this the number is in the $1.19 to $1.20 range. This is the rate where the total tax collected from each is the same, and is based on the entire tax base not any individual circumstance. The way I see it the $1.245 is 3.75% above the equalization rate. Given the current economy this is not moral or justifiable under any scenario. Also my house assessment has INCREASED by $200,000 and I have not changed this house since I built it 30 years ago. Now we can discuss what constitutes an increase or decrease, but I can tell you I will pay a huge increase, and the average County property owner will pay an extra 3.75%. Certainly not in line with deflation or GDP.
John Millhiser
on April 7th, 2009Echoing the sentiments of Loudoun Lady, Buckley must go. This is now the second tax hike she has voted against because it wasn’t high enough! Frankly, I’ve had enough – of her.
Lloyd the Idiot
on April 7th, 2009LI #62, you started the stupid tax rate/assessment argument with the wording of your post. But I must admit it benefited Stoner and sally. There both cool now.
Ah the hospital, that’s right Waters voted against that revenue producer also. Then tried to saddle us with 100M of High School we don’t need. I like vacliff’s assessment of her, fiscally irresponsible. She ain’t getting any credit for a cowardly “no” vote on this budget.
Anonymous
on April 7th, 200973 was me. I apologize for the Anonymous tag.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009#68, my home value has been going up the last two years for some reason. It is assessed too high, in my opinion, relative to other properties in the County. I think the numbers are manipulated to help certain neighborhoods, etc. They don’t want masses in Ashburn or Potomac Falls protesting, so they pick on non neighborhood properties, where they won’t have a lot of people complaining, which makes it are harder to appeal. My house is identical to another house in Catoctin, but assessed (just the house part) more than $100,000 more than that house. I am hoping they will reduce my house assessment.
#67, Blazing Saddles:
Growth could have paid for itself, but we have made conscious decisions to build much smaller schools, much more expensive amenities, and to have many more staff, and smaller school classes. We have built twice as many schools for our population compared to Fairfax County, which has one of the top school districts in the Country, consistently in the top 20.
We are spending more on schools than the rate of growth and inflation. So get off the growth caused all of this. Our decisions caused this.
Growth could have paid for everything and more. It is mismanaged proffers, inadequate proffers, and unenforceable proffers that have caused a large part of our headache, and also excessive “needs” by the school board and waste at the County level.
We need some hard choices, and these democrats will not do it for us. I am very disappointed in Mr. York on this and his lack of leadership, and I think I am in the majority of people who feel this way about him and the other Board members who voted for this tax rate.
sally
on April 7th, 2009Well Lori was in part responsible the for second largest lease in the United States in Raytheon. “”"”"”"”"”"Commercial real-estate information company CoStar reported the deal is the second largest lease signed in the country this year. The space is also five times larger than the space Hilton Hotels recently secured in Tysons Corner.”"”"”"”"”"”"
The call came in December to Loudoun Economic Development officials. Raytheon Co., Hello people Lori is the chairman
http://www.loudountimes.com/news/2009/apr/01/raytheon-moving-operations-loudoun/
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009Great another future vacant space in the home of Raytheon, just like the highly touted West Creek industrial area for the semiconductor manufactures years back before the bottom dropped out of the tech market and not only did the jobs never materialize but either did the tax revenue for Henrico outside Richmond. Was anyone paying attention to Gates remarks and the defense cuts coming. Once again the Dems are dead serious on bringing down the deficit solely through cuts to defense- just like Clinton accomplished in the 90’s. We all know where that left our military and its readiness capabilities. There is talk that the current adminsitration seeks out a more “knowledge based” military than a “weaponized” one which directly reflects the intention of reducing defense procurement for weapon systems. There was a post a few weeks back about the F-22—we got our answer; no more planes because we just do not think that the scenario in which we have to use them will actually ever happen. Dam if you do not have to be very liberal to think that way. That little noise we hear now in terms of jobs will be a major sucking sound before long here in Virginia as we see the teeth of the defense cuts cost Virginians jobs.
Alter of Freedom
on April 7th, 2009BlackOut is back with his Waters fixation. Give it a rest.
AoF, that was disappointing in regard to the F-22, but let’s all try to stay on topic here.
Loudoun Insider
on April 7th, 2009LI-
If Inova offered you a house in Sterling Park, would you move there?
What a joke.
Lee-
The reality is that Lori almost screwed the pooch on the Raytheon deal. When she found out about it, she had a hard time keeping her mouth shut.
She had NOTHING to do with Raytheon coming to Loudoun.
vacliff
on April 7th, 2009LI, I’ll stick to reality on Waters. If you want to talk about fixation than you’re more than qualified. My guess is it’s best we both stay with reality.
Waters needs to regroup, she has had a very disappointing start to this term. She’s vulnerable.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009First Cliff since you hate her so much you are not part of any of her private circles so in reality you only have hear say and want to spin it against her any way you can. She is chairman of ED in Loudoun and I will say she knew from day one. Most of the rest of the new BOS has done diddly when it comes to ED and I will go further most don’t have a clue about ED. Lori York and Buckley have spearheaded the rezone of rt 28, with McG the most clueless I have ever seen on ED you should of seen her going into the twilight zone again on the Belfort piece again today. And Buckley has also gone into the twilight zone with wanting higher taxes. I thought she had potential but not after that. Burk and McG will and are self destructing. Miller is finished on the BOS or getting re elected to the BOS if he does not win rusts seat now that he is going after Rust’s seat. Remember very few ex BOS have done much after their terms on the BOS. Once they have no political power of office they are mostly worthless to the business community.
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009Cliff, you have no clue what you’re talking about in that regard. None. You’re buying rumor and innuendo as fact.
BO, I have no fixation at all – I’d love to see a Waters-mention analysis between you and I over the last year. You win exponentially. You have personally made up so much BS about her in the last few months you probably can’t keep all the storylines straight.
Loudoun Insider
on April 7th, 2009Haha, Lee said, “ED”. Geez, re-read that post! It’s amazing.
Here we go again with the Lee FACTS (fiction and contrived thoughts)
Lee please tell us the story about the trains again. Please, please.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009LI, the Waters record is very transparent. Nothing has to be made up. Look at the public record and her votes. She’s tanking. I am not sure what it is, but this entire term she has seemed very distracted. Her judgment is off. I am not the only one noticing.
BlackOut
on April 7th, 2009Blackout you are very scary thank god I have my good buddy the sheriff living across the street with his police vehicle parked out front. And high powered hidden video cameras surrounding the outside of my home so I can check if you are stalking my place in drive by’s ha ha ha ha ha. You are one messed up dude blackout.
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009Oh Blackout before you jump into other districts you better worry about who is going to replace Miller in your district.
Lee J
on April 7th, 2009“Also my house assessment has INCREASED by $200,000 and I have not changed this house since I built it 30 years ago. Now we can discuss what constitutes an increase or decrease, but I can tell you I will pay a huge increase, and the average County property owner will pay an extra 3.75%. Certainly not in line with deflation or GDP.”
- John Millhiser
The myth propagated by those wanting to raise the tax rate was that most taxpayers are going to see a reduction. That $2k in extra taxes you will pay is real, it is an increase that did not have to happen and you are not alone.
G. Stone
on April 8th, 2009My builder friend across the street just had his home appraised, as he is going to sell it soon so he can move into their new home he just built.
Well he almost fell over dead at the arms length appraisal. Well below the county appraisal which went down substantially this year and this was well below the counties. THe appraiser told him the county does not include foreclosures or short sales which he said is stupid because they are having a real affect on current sales. A good part of the sales these days are forecloseures etc and many to investors NOT end users. Ring a bell the investors ruined the boom years also driving prices up up up. Now the opposite. many homes that are not in foreclosure are hurting the sales of the real sales and driving every bodies price down. I wonder how many people can actually sell their home at the county appraisal????? I doubt many can. So in the real world of real estate is far different then the county fantasy land.
Before everyone gets too excited about Raytheon wich is the second largest lease in the entire USA this year. Raytheon could see substantial cuts because as Gates just announced huge cuts in defense as I have been saying all along. Obama is going to cut the deficit at the cost of defense like Clinton did. And this is going to have a huge affect on our area and jobs and job loss and Raytheon.
Lee J
on April 8th, 2009Leesburg Today article:
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/04/08/news/fp228budget040709.txt
Loudoun Insider
on April 8th, 2009From the above story.
Buckley has to quit it with her sticks and stones analogies! She has made a couple similar analogies in the last year on other topics.
“”Buckley said she ultimately voted against the budget because she felt a Tier 1, or $26 million, reduction to the school system’s budget was too much, comparing it to a game of Ker Plunk.
“You pull out the sticks, but you’re not really sure where or how the marbles are going to fall,” she said. Buckley also gave credit to the School Board and Superintendent Edgar B. Hatrick for proposing a budget that had a cost per pupil decrease and “for the first time ever, the Loudoun County School Board proposed less in local tax funding.” “”
Loudoun Insider
on April 8th, 2009I had hopes for Buckley but her wanting higher taxes works directly against ED in this county.
Lee J
on April 8th, 2009Great comments at the Washington Post article!
http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/news/2009/apr/07/supervisors-approve-1245-tax-rate/
anon
on April 8th, 2009Wow, that Ker Plunk quote is going to come back and bit Buckley in the behind, too much material! I can’t wait to use that far and wide in the coming months and years.
Loudoun Lady
on April 8th, 2009I would agree that Susan Buckleys votes are very disillusioning. But her comments that go along with those votes are illogical. The methods she describes in coming to a decision just don’t make sense. Very disappointing indeed.
2011 will be all about taxes
on April 8th, 2009Mine are going down a few hundred dollars (but percentage-wise have dropped less than the value of my home).
With that said, we need to continue to take a hard look at the value we get from our expenditures and adjust accordingly. The Board could have done better, but I am somewhat surprised it did not do worse. Everyone on this thread has had some good spending-reduction ideas, even BlackOut.
We need to stop fearing the educational establishment – they need to do more with less just like the rest of us. $12,500 per student is plenty; I would estimate with that amount of spending less than 30% is going to teacher salaries, which means the budget is larded up with unnecessary administrators and overhead.
Former LCRC Member
on April 8th, 2009Like “deans” for every grade, “curriculum specialists” that nearly all teachers think are an absolute waste of space, and guidance counselors for elementary kids?
Loudoun Insider
on April 8th, 2009Interesting commentary about taxes on a property that I don’t believe is exactly average. Since the owner volunteered her tax increase as an example of an impact and since it is a matter of public record…I wanted to break it down so I could understand the issue a little bit better. In researching this, I found that the property in question is 34 acres with improvements and the record shows that it is in the land use program and gets a tax break.
The 2009 value on the property is $1,075,900 (land $507,900, imprv $568,000). The land use value posted is $150,030. Adding the $150,030 to the $568,000 means that the taxes paid are based on a total of $718,030. At $1.245 the tax for 2009 is actually $8,939.50. The tax break is $4,455 for land use because the land is taxed at $150,030 instead of $507,900.
The 2008 value on the property was $1,200,100 (land $634,900, imprv $565,200). The land use value posted was $200,060. Adding the $200,060 to $565,200 means that the taxes paid were based on a total of $765,260. At $1.14 the tax for 2008 was actually $8,723.96. The tax break was $4,957 for land use because the land was taxed at $200,060 instead of $634,900.
Subtacting the 2008 tax of $8,723.96 from the 2009 tax of $8,939.50 is only a $215.54 increase.
UpUpandAway
on April 8th, 2009UU&A
While the property is not what would be called average compared to the average property in the county, the fact that the land was assessed at a 12.5% premium year over year in this market does not coincide with reality. Neither does the taxrate. Now you seem to imply that the tax is ONLY $215.54 more, and I guess because it is a relatively high dollar property they can afford it. I wonder if you have any idea how much money or net worth this owner might have lost in this market this year? I suspect, like us all, losses of 40% are commonplace. I also think their losses would exceed the extra $215 they need to pay the county many many times over. Unlike the average property who is paying a 3.75% increase this owner is probably netting a substantial loss further helped by a county who can’t seem to control spending and think, “Oh it’s just a little more.” With 40% loses out there we are all tightening our belts but not the County. In the current economy the last thing we need is any increase in anything that requires more of our money.
John Millhiser
on April 8th, 2009John, we can all feel the pain. If we are talking about the same property in Hamilton here is the assessed value over the last three years.
2009 718,030
2008 765,260
2007 757,150
Looks to me like just about everyone elses ebb and flow. Looks pretty average to me, and I bet my ole friend vacliff can relate.
BlackOut
on April 8th, 2009Damn sal, I just read #97 and you’re getting a tax break for usage??? Heck I use my property too. How can I work that deal? Do moles and voles count as livestock, because if they do I might be in business.
BlackOut
on April 8th, 2009BlackOut why don’t we post your business also
what a bunch of snoops, that apparently have nothing better to do. And Monks too since you don’t own property in Loudoun, at least not in your name it seems.!!!
Lee J
on April 8th, 2009Lee, you should check yours, you’re probably looking at a tax cut too.
Here are the public sources:
http://www.loudoun.gov
http://www.whitepages.com/
Now make sure to spell your name right.
BlackOut
on April 8th, 2009Watchout blackout I posted this OP and I am dead serious so be careful what you say Glen Mackowitz oops black out hmmm I don’t think I spelled your name correct. ha ha ha oops I am sorry Glenn Maravetz
Sally I have a very good friend who is a private detective to the biggest A list stars out in Hollywood . He could do a background check on everyone here or wherever and find more stuff on them they even know about themselves. He has shown me how easy it is to find anything on anyone by using the internet legally. And it does not cost money or take very long. If you know where to go on the internet it is a piece of cake. I rarely want to know anything about anybody and respect their privacy, but if this gets out of control here I will expose every anonymous name here. And blackout sally is not a public figure which public figures have less rules on them when it comes to slander or libel. But blackout I would be very worried if you post false information on someone or invade their privacy the wrong way. I just got off the phone with my criminal attorney brother.
Lee J
on April 9th, 2009Can everyone quit with this and get back to the matter of discussion?
Loudoun Insider
on April 9th, 2009Like “deans” for every grade, “curriculum specialists” that nearly all teachers think are an absolute waste of space, and guidance counselors for elementary kids?
- Loudoun Insider
Add “Parent-Teacher Liaisons” – I am not sure why parent’s can’t just email or talk to a teacher. I just found out about these positions on MS information night, there is one for each MS I believe, probably HS too.
Loudoun Lady
on April 9th, 2009LI, I would think carefully about blocking some of these posts. I know that isn’t the preferred route, but a personally threatening tone and direction will place a chilling effect on other posters and diminish the content of these discussions.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 9th, 2009There is a mighty large elephant in the room.
AFF
on April 9th, 2009Funny, that same property showed a tax increase (that was paid) of $1800 in 2008 from 2007, didn’t it guys?
How much did your tax go down in 2008 BlackOut?
Think I posted that I should have appealed last year, but was too busy.
I did appeal it this year for all you geniuses.
And you are incapable of really breaking it down. How does the value of the improvements go up when nothing was done… the value went up this year.
There are some large ASSES in the room, or should I say donkeys.
sally
on April 9th, 2009see latest article on
http://www.loudountaxpayer.com
Spending is still outpacing growth and inflation; taxes are still too high.
HFTB
on April 9th, 2009Blackout lives on the corner on the street Butterfield ct where the first Ashburn Farms northern Virginia home builders show was held but his home was not part of it as it was built later. The home he talks about at the end of his street is a stucco home which I designed and we built for the show and was the first one sold and recently assessed at 1,263,000 and this year assessed at 792,500 that is a incredible drop in one year and shows how over assessed and ridiculous the county assessments have been over the last several years. That home would of never sold for over a million dollars ever. That is why the county owes us for the last years for over charging us in taxes.
We were the first to sell our home during that builders show. It must make blackout sick he lives so close to my designs and homes. We also designed and built most of the homes just down from blackout on brownstone ct and preston ct where we built the homes on top of the rock the floor of the basements many times were at street level or higher so we did not have to blast the rock. We then terraced up with low stone walls and the streets turned out to be two of the nicest in ashburn farms. We also built all the homes at the beginning of ashburn farms on Starflower and nightshade where many of the redskins bought way back then from us. Known as the castle homes.
And smaller homes across the street on stonecrop
Lee J
on April 9th, 2009I will finish that most of our homes were called the castle homes even to this day and usually command higher resale then the surrounding homes.
And yes blackout will pay about 200 dollars less in taxes this year. Now I am finished with this ridiculous BS that blackout was getting high off of. I was just answering Sally’s question. Hopefully we can get off of peoples personal business and on to more important discussions.
Lee J
on April 9th, 2009I am really disgusted by the direction this thread has taken. What does any of this have to do with critiquing government policy?
Maybe I’ve misunderstood the purpose of this site. I had thought we were here to discuss policy, politics, etc. In the past I enjoyed the spirited discussions and observing the debates from differing perspectives. But this thread has taken a really inappropriate personal turn.
Frankly, if no one has an interest in engaging in a real substatintive debate, then this site might as well change its name to “Conservatives Gone Wild,” put up bikini pictures of Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter and call it a day. This is really getting ridiculous.
Alfred E. Newman
on April 9th, 2009AEN, it is what it is. Things got off track due to people from both sides taking potshots at each other. It isn’t fair to only call out the conservative types in this instance.
Loudoun Insider
on April 9th, 2009I’m not opposed to Palin pics, as described by AEN. Coulter is a little too gaunt for my aesthetic taste.
AEN, more seriously, you kind of have to strain out the nonsense and hope for substance about every fifth comment. There’s also a lot of road rage around here (not just this blog, but generally. Some are all rage all the time. This one is fairly cozy by comparison). A lot of us appreciate your inputs. Don’t get discouraged. Stay engaged.
NoVA Scout
on April 9th, 2009Ann Coulter is nasty!
Loudoun Insider
on April 10th, 2009The tax rate will never be reasonable until the county gets benefits costs under control and in line with the private sector and federal government. There is a great analysis on the TAG website of that expense. For starters, all county employees get a defined benefit pension plan. Very few companies offer that anymore, nor does the federal government. Employees are suppose to contribute 5% of their salary, but the county (actually, the taxpayers) pays it, in addition to the 10% it is required to pay. That is a huge cost – probably $35 million a year just for the employee share! If employees are lucky enough to even have a retirement plan these days, it is probably a 401k that might offer a matching contribution from the company. The county health insurance plan is much more expensive than what the average private sector company offers, if it is offered at all. They did raise deductibles this year in the tier 1 cuts, but there’s probably $20 million more they need to cut.
HFTB
on April 10th, 2009Good point, HFTB. And don’t forget those huge increases teachers got during the boom years.
Loudoun Insider
on April 10th, 2009This is completely stupid to increase tax when economy is very bad people having hard time to save thier home from foreclouser. They use this tax money for school system. Why should my tax money go to public school system when i don’t have any kids. The people who has 6 or even more kids shouldn’t pay more tax for thier kids school. Why should i pay those people kids ???
tuhin
on April 24th, 2009