Our wonderful “public servants” at Loudoun County Public Schools are already whipping out the NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) charges against anyone questioning their horrible Wheatland Farm deal. The outrage on this over-priced, poorly conditioned deal goes way beyond those few who could be said to be in this site’s “backyard”. It’s just another example of LCPS’ horrendous track record in land acquistions.
One alternative site that was the subject of much controversy was the Miller site just on the outskirts of Lovettsville. I can see that there are some obvious problems with this site as well, but at least it conforms with the comprehensive plan in being located within or adjacent to an established rural town. Many believe LCPS sabotaged this deal because ….. well ….. there really isn’t a great explanation except for this:
That plan shows the location of the Miller parcels in blue, with the properties of Catoctin Supervisor Sally Kurtz in green and LCPS Chief Planner Sam Adamo in orange. Did everyone know they’re next door neighbors? I didn’t until very recently. The more dense town of Lovettsville is quite obvious at the top of the plan. Former LCPS official Evan Mohler who handled much of these negotiations also lives in Lovettsville, and then there’s Lovettsville Mayor Elaine Walker who has actively opposed a Lovettsville school. I guess it’s great to be an Official NIMBY when you can apparently push the process how you want it to go. I can just imagine the conversations – “”Hell yeah, that Wheatland site looks great! Who cares how much it costs, we better get it now! Terms? Who needs ‘em, let Cangiano’s former and current attorneys work that out!”"
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May 03rd by Loudoun Insider
I heard that Kurtz was going to sell her property if a school went on that site.
That would also mess with Adamo’s bike rides.
But do we even need these schools now anyway? I don’ think so.
Sally Kurtz is a huge disappointment. The rules don’t apply to her, she subdivides her property then down zones everyone else. Comp plan calls for school in Lville, the people in Lville want schools there, but Sally Kurtz puts her own selfish interests above the people she represents.
The Wheatland deal is a disgrace, and so are our public officials.
The real disgrace is those who would place a school on the end of a main artery thru a town with no work-arounds to mitigate traffic, just so they can drop their kids off in time to get to the trains to go to Washington. Screw the rest of us that live and work in town, or how we’ll have to adjust to the school in our quest to feed OUR families.
If you find a property on a thoroughfare that has a workaround, that does not hinder traffic because it can’t go around it, name it. Or else —shut up.
If you have a feasible alternative, introduce it.
So far, the oponents of Wheatland are proposing enacting eminent domain on two properties in town, since neither property owner is interested in selling.
Would I like to see the School Board renegotiate the price on the Wheatland parcel? Certainly.
Does this mean scrapping it all, in order to please 30 or so obnoxious dreamers? No.
Looks like there are more possibilities for “workarounds” for the Miller site than there are for the Wheatland site. There are an awful lot of people commuting down 287 in the am to 9 to 7– how are they going to “workaround” that?
Bullet dude – in the spirit of the original post, since you live on Quarter Branch, you should know there are two alternatives for you – its straight west to 287 or through Taylorstown. There is always another way, perhaps not as convenient but since those folks in Wheatland will have to be convenienced too I thought I’d point this out to you. Why is it OK for everyone else to be inconvenienced except you and the 10 or so obnoxious NIMBYs in Lovettsville. By the way the Wheatland Alliance has amassed 1000 signatures from throughout the County in opposition of schools there. I don’t ride a train or even have kids going to a school. It just makes sense (to far more than just 30 people) that these schools should be in Towns. Anyone who is fighting against that seems like a total jerk.
And what about the aquifer question? There are substantial rural businesses all around the Wheatland site which supply our County with a lot of food, and they are dependent on their artesian wells. Sucking up 70,000 gallons a day for the school will devastate these wells and businesses. So destroy their businesses, so you few in Lovettsville don’t have to be inconvenienced to take another route? And you call others obnoxious?
Lots of problems with the Wheatland contract and price, and the way the few powerful shut out the public…
The Comprehensive Plan calls for schools to be located, WHENEVER POSSIBLE, in existing towns and communities.
And why on earth would you have me go all the way around Taylortown, to Loyalty, to Waterford….just to get to the otherside of Lovettsville? I work around the town. I seldom go to Leesburg or Purcellville, but why do I need to go 15 miles out of my way?
Furthermore, please address the eminent domain issue. You and your small group will gladly take someone’s land. I’m relieved that the BOS is smarter than you and has realized that their careers hit a sudden stop the day that they actually entertain eminent domain as a fix to any problems they may be having.
On one last note…please post the actual text of that petition. It’s not exactly clear what these folks were signing, because the wording was purposely directional.
Anything’s poss w/ DrA but that characteriza seems off for Sally. Mayor of Lovettsville Walker seems to be keeping the lid on development there and reportedly burdens businesses trying to make a go of it in Town. So it would seem more in line for her to be talking out of the side of her mouth – saying to the public she supports a school but telling her politican friends that she doesn’t want it. Since #5 points out Bulletproof Monk lives in Town, perhaps he/she is a big campaign donor of Walkers and she is simply pandering to him?
you can download a copy of the petition at http://www.wheatlandalliance.org
#7, So render land and businesses valueless, destroy their wells on which the value depends, so we can overpay to put a school where you want it? At least with eminent domain, the property owner gets paid for his rights. In this case, rights are taken without any compensation– if the wells are destroyed. You think that is better?
Monk – you don’t have to go 15 minutes out of your way, you just have adjust your travel time (just gives you more time to yack at the 7-11), deal with traffic or detour. It is what everyone else in the world has to do – welcome to the real world buddy. No need for busses on the roads for the Town kids who can walk, so traffic impacts in a Town would be fewer than anywhere else. Add to that Sally’s points and you’ve got more than enough justification to look harder in Town instead of settling in Wheatland.
I knew this post would get BPM in a tizzy. The petition is quite straightforward, and there are a lot more than a few people pissed off about this deal.
Anon makes a good point about your inconvenience versus all of 287 travellers’ convenience. Waterford will see a HUGE uptick in through traffic if this monstrosity gets built. There is no way they will build this mega-plex without significant upgrades to the 287/9 intersection. Which is of course very complicated due to a huge hill on one side and large stream on the other. And who will it really help if that gets done? All the developers holding land, including Cangiano at the top of the list. This is great for them – get the school system to pay to upgrade the intersection and reap the benefits.
There is at least one landowner I know of that has immediate plans to upzone their property next to this site. The couonty, should it allow this gross violation of the comp plan, will have a tough time turning them down. From the school’s/developers’ perspective this is great again. BUild the school and the upzoning will come. If there’s no existing town, we’ll just create one around it.
I don’t know if Miller is workable, but they didn’t appear to study it much at all and by many accounts sabotaged the deal. The simple fact is there are more than a few feasible alternatives close to Lovettsville if they were looking at separate sites for the different schools. This ridiculous requirement to site three schools together (don nowhere else in this county or even in miles of this county) is what has driven the large site search selection. It’s complete bullshit set up to favor Cangiano.
Of course all of this could be looked at through the highly touted but as of yet ineffective Joint BOS-SB Committee, but nooooooooooooo, they had to jump right into this bogus contract and jump the gun. Oh wait, Sally Kurtz is the head of that joint committee, so maybe this was the plan all along.
One more thing – I’ve been giving Robert DuPree lots of grief for this contract that he signed, and he deserves that criticism, but he’s telling people around town that “this is all Sally’s deal, Sally’s pushing this” or something similar.
I’ve always liked her, and she’s done a lot for rural Loudoun, but her pushing this deal makes no sense whatsoever. There is no reasonable explanation in my mind for her complete turnaround on protecting Loudoun’s farms and rural economy other than her proximity to one of the prime alternatives.
BPM would know that Sarah had more than a band of 5 people if he could have bothered to show up at the Lovettsville meeting.
There were far more Lovettsville residents arguing against this site than for it.
#7
The petition is a lot more clear than your criticism of it… “purposely directional”–what does that mean? It listed a variety of reasons, and people who signed, said they agreed with one or more of the reasons, to oppose the Wheatland site. Pretty clear petition to anyone who is honest with themself.
Sounds like you have the SB dismissive, disrespectful attitude,with nose upturned, at anyone who disagrees with you or dares to ask a question…minimizing the growing real and large public anger at being shut out, and at having this overpriced and bad deal forced on it, against the public will and without respect for our process or laws.
What with the bullying at the meeting, those in favor of it didn’t even enter the room.Everyone should know that I don’t actually need to attend a meeting to know what went on. I knew more in the hour immediately after that meeting than many here still do.
Where’s the alternatives in Lovettsville, people?
The ones that won’t require eminent domain?
Cause that’s a dead and very unpopular issue. So, I suppose if you want a site in Lovettsville, you’d better find a willing participant.
And I will not commute 15 miles out of my way just to get to the other side of Lovettsville. Will you people stop and listen to yourselves?
Sally, I always get a chuckle from reading your misinformed rants.
I don’t think I’ve seen you ever display a correct analysis of a single event in Loudoun County.
If you want to look at the money and burgeoning power players in this mess—you need to look at the money flowing into the Wheatland Alliance. That’s where your NIMBY power really sits.
I applaud your desire to fight the powers that be. But your guns are pointed in the wrong direction….as usual.
This is not about you and YOUR commute, monk. Get over yourself.
A lot of people felt the RFP was rigged and not advertised well.
Redo the RFP.
This is not about you and your town, Sally. . Get over YOURSELF.
I’ve got this under control.
Where are the alternative sites that don’t require eminent domain?
I suppose this bunch has none, huh?
#17
Typical, attack when you have no facts or argument.
Take your own advice, and get real. You are the one out to misinform out of your own selfishness.
#19–you have it “under control?” What does that mean? there are over a thousand people who are mad as h#ll, and what is it that you are in control of?
Redo the RFP. Simple.
The bullying??? You weren’t even there – what a joke. I knew more about that meeting because I sat through the whole damn thing – something that Pricilla Godfrey couldn’t bring herself to do. As the selected Chairman in Waiting by the ruling cabal you figure she would have been there to grant an official presence to the meeting.
You don’t want to detour and I can understand that, but a shit load more people will be detouring through Waterford if this mega-plex gets built. Said such citizens:
“I will not commute 15 minutes out of my way just to get around the traffic nightmare at 287/9″
Just as valid as your complaint, and certainly more of those complaints will exist than your variety.
“Where are the alternative sites that don’t require eminent domain?
I suppose this bunch has none, huh?”
-BPM
That’s what the freaking school planners are supposed to do!!! But no one trusts them anymore!!! It shouldn’t be up to citizens to do all their work for them, and if sites aren’t available right now, they can afford to wait a while. These schools proposed aren’t scheduled for years and with the rate of construction right now, it could be a decade before they’re needed. Land values will continue to drop in this next year – good deals will be available, which is all the more reason to scrap this crummy ass deal.
LI makes a good point. Traffic impacts will exist NO MATTER WHERE this goes. So the facilities need to be placed and sized in such a way to minimize those impacts, not aggravate. What’s more, the County HAS to be willing to come to the table and do as they expect developers to do – MITIGATE impacts of their own development. Putting this complex on 287 saying that road can handle the traffic with minimal upgrades is a copout. Putting in alternative wastewater treatment plants that are BANNED for everyone else is hypocritical.
#23 – has the School Board ever entered into an agreement for first right of refusal on a property? They don’t have to condemn but if the property owner wants to sell in the future, SB is positioned in the front of the pack – as long as they are willing to pay a fair price. By offering landowners with property in a prime location a tax break/deferral or other incentives, more options that make sense just might be available by the time schools are needed.
So yesterday, BPM was advocating killing the deal on his blog… including a call to action to contact your Supervisor.
Today, all traces of that post have disappeared. Except the magical Google Cache.
BPM- have you figured out how much your taxes will go up when this property, and other properties the county purchases, goes off the tax roles? A large parcel, with road frontage, on a high speed road….I would guess close to 900K a year in taxes. While LCPS buys land that they say, may just end up as surplus, we taxpayers foot the bill. How can you accept that?
Elaine Walker is unbelievably politically influential, particularly with Sally Kurtz. If you want to know why Kurtz voted against Broadlands Med Center, despite voting for it in 2005, it’s because Elaine Walker hates HCA since INOVA promised Lovettsville a health center (still not built yet). Kurtz and Mark Herring also have skated quite nicely between those who want to lower water and sewer rates outside of Leesburg, and the town residents and politicians who want the higher rates — i.e. Kristen Umstattd. Herring and Kurtz have done nothing to intervene and come up with a settlement. He and Kurtz play the politics of NIMBYism quite well and it’s unbelievable that the Loudoun Republicans haven’t figured out how to smash these Dems. I hate to say it, but Dems, from Obama down to Umstattd and Kurtz, know how to be worthless in office by being ‘mr and ms. nice.’
Monk, your house to 287, via the road that you live on, is not 15 miles, nor is it a huge inconvenience. You are asking everyone else to be inconvenienced every time they have go to Purcellville, just because you don’t shop at the Giant. I guess the Missus does all your shopping for you. How nice for you.
You would rather inconvenience every child in Lovettsville, and their families, by putting a school in a place that inconveniences them, but not you. King NIMBY award goes to Monk.
I forgot to address Monk’s eminent domain issue. I have little doubt that those people who didn’t want to sell their land in the past will rapidly change their mind if they get as good a deal as Cangiano and Burgess are getting. I know lots of people in Lovettsville who would sell their land for those prices!
Good coloring. Stayed within the lines and everything.
Again, why do people equate a school with a toxic dump?
Traffic will be impacted whereever this thing goes — so let’s call it a day on that argument.
Let’s talk:
Economic development
Existing infrastructure
Environmental impact
Future population
Comp plan fit
Fiduciary responsibility to taxpayers
I moved to Loudoun a year ago. My property is not adjacent to the controversial Wheatland parcel, but is in close proximity. I have to say I am thoroughly disgusted with the school board’s underhanded and manipulative tactics. I am tempted to pack up and move back to Maryland, where governors may go to jail for income tax evasion, but at least the school boards concern themselves with education rather than real estate deals.
my email to the BoS, PC and BS:
“Generally this should be a good time to buy property, but the School Board has elected to contract to purchase land in Wheatland at an exorbitant price, at many times the actual worth, and all without adequate studies to determine other costs, such as transportation.
But this is not the worst, the contract is not even contingent on the property being able to be used as a school. And there are serious questions about whether this property conforms with the comprehensive plan, whether the proposed 70,000 gallons a day water requirement will destroy the artesian wells of adjacent properties (and render them useless) and other serious questions about this particular location with respect to the Comprehensive Plan and neighboring farming businesses. If public water is not to be supplied, then the effect on the artesian wells adjacent will be devastating. At a minimum, there needs to be a study of that particular aquifer, and the effects on local farmers who depend on water for their businesses.
It is a travesty that this contract was entered into with no contingency for all studies to be complete, and a special exception in hand. Inevitably, there will be more litigation, another situation like Woodgrove, only worse.
The School Board has no authority to purchase land to be used as “surplus” land, or land to “swap” or “park” land. This contract is to purchase land which “might” be used as a proposed school. The contract is speculative in that many necessary studies will have to be performed before the actual feasibility is established. Given the serious problem with the particular artesian aquifer, and the language of the comp plan which appears not to even allow the school in this location, the contract is therefore clearly ultra vires, an abuse of fiduciary responsibilities, and at best a negligent disregard of legal responsibility on the part of the School Board. Each member of the School Board who votes for this could be held personally responsible for this travesty, and disregarding his or her legal responsibilities.
And worse, the School Board contract for this property misappropriates our tax money. There are 120 acres very near by for sale for 1.2 million dollars. Ten thousand an acre is the going rate, not $70,000 an acre. Yes, there is a preliminary plat approved, but the price the School Board is paying is higher than even finished lots (recorded with all roads in place, etc.) are going for–this is raw land and the preliminary approval is still far away from recorded lots, with lots of costs and risks associated for engineering and construction required to finish the subdivision–millions of dollars potentially. We should not be paying a premium here based on the preliminary approval.
The contract for this property states that a condition precedent to settlement is that there be no “threat” that the property cannot be used as a school. And in another paragraph, the School Board has full authority to back out of the contract in its sole discretion if it is not satisfied as to the feasibility of the site for a school.
School Board, please do not go forward with this contract, and exercise your right to cancel it based on lack of information about the local aquifer, transportation needs/solutions/ and questions about the comprehensive plan.
Members of the Planning Commission, and Board of Supervisors, you need to act to adopt a resolution opposing this property as a school so that the condition precedent to settle on the property (that there is no threat the property could be used as a school) is not satisfied, and so that the settlement cannot occur.
Board of Supervisors, you should file suit to stop the settlement on this property if the School Board will not listen to reason and insists on misuse of our tax dollars to rush into a poor contract that is ultra vires.”
Opposition to schools- I think now I have heard it all from those residing in my birth home of Loudoun…as soon as you folks decide to make up your minds what model you want to follow for the future let us know okay. Everywhere else, Virginians would love to have another school or more schools built. You folks are about to make the same mistake others before you have made in Virginia regarding failing to get ahead of the curve. Thats why every major juristiction represensting the top five growth areas in Virginia have been resorting to continued use of trailers at schools due to over capacity. You want to be or remain a First Choice community in Loudoun; than get the schools built wherever and whenever you can…it will only get worse for you if Chesterfield and others are any indication based on similar growth patterns.
No worries AOF, this is all being stoked by well known Loudoun lunatics. There’s a history here that will affect any effort they make. For those not aware of their instability they’ll arouse some interest but nothing worth sustaining.
Anything they bring up will be followed by the inevitable and repeated line, “oh, that group, that explains a lot”.
What a crew. Leej would make more sense than this gaggle of goofs.
Oh one other thing, it may appear to be an uprising, but check out the posts, and then consider that each of them has a record of posting numerous times under different names. The multiplier is only effective in creating word poundage but real does not reflect a real outcry.
This is like kindling that burns faster than you can light it. No smoke and no ash once it’s lit. It’s just gone.
BlackOut, I will agree that there are some on the Wheatland Alliance side of the issue that have a less than savory record on other issues.
That doesn’t mean they’re wrong on this issue.
Even a stopped watch is right twice a day.
BO, with you here, I guess this means Scott York is against this, too, and you have his and the SB’s attack points…
Attack personalities all you want, bring in Lee to all your posts, and ignore any substantive debate, as per your custom….
But people are on to you, and can see the truth here.
There is no defense (or reasonable/legal justification) for the deal in Wheatland.
BlackOut has veered off into a-hole territory again. BO, you know I am pretty damn consistent with keeping people to one handle per IP. If you think this is just a few people, go right ahead and continue to fool yourself. I see you have yet to substantively address the numeroous concerns with this deal. Now go get your talking points from Robert and come back with something worth discussing.
AoF, you need to learn more about this before going off like that. There are real school building needs in Loudoun County. Just not in this area. This is an attempt to “land bank” for future schools not yet needed, by buying a poorly situated piece of property at an exorbitant price in this continually declining real estate market. It’s a bad deal, one that takes money away from real needs.
My personal favorite line from my post:
“”Terms? Who needs ‘em, let Cangiano’s former and current attorneys work that out!””
Here’s what LCPS had to say about this on their website:
Rumor About LCPS Division Counsel
There has been a rumor regarding the sale that LCPS wishes to lay to rest.
E-mails have circulated stating LCPS Division Counsel Bill Chapman used unspecified undue influence to negotiate the contract with Cangiano. Chapman formerly represented Cangiano in his role as a partner with the Reed Smith law firm. Chapman gave the following statement when his association with Cangiano has been questioned in the past: “I did, in my previous life as a private attorney, represent Mr. Cangiano in certain litigation; that is a matter of public record. None of that litigation related to, or involved the Cangiano property at Wheatland.”
Mr. Chapman has been the school division’s counsel since March 2006 with no other clients.
Google is an amazing tool. Maybe Sally Kurtz is a bit closer to Sal Cangiano than anyone realizes.
http://www.loudoun.gov/controls/speerio/resources/RenderContent.aspx?data=15871f777e674c82bc257812d373bc12&tabid=313&fmpath=%2FBusiness+Meeting+Packets%2F2007%2F12-04-07+packet
(see pages 15-16)
Loudoun County bought 144 acres from Cangiano on Sycolin Road in the Leesburg District in late 2007 for $5.5 million. This stinky contract has the county paying Cangiano $9.9 million for 160 acres. So two years into a real estate meltdown and far away from Leesburg in the boonies you’re telling me this land is worth almost TWICE that deal???
But the oddest thing is who made the motion for this purchase. It wasn’t the Leesburg District Supervisor Jim Clem, it was … Sally Kurtz. That’s just weird.
In 1991 Cangiano sold a farm to the BOS for more than $5M amid allegations the landfill contaminated groundwater on the property. The property later became Banshee Reeks. He’s well connected that’s for sure.
Rumor has it that Reed Smith is representing the Waterford Foundation for free in its SE application for the old school. This may be a substantial value. A developer could easily pay a couple hundred thousand dollars (or a lot more) for legal advice in an SE. Reed Smith has planners who work for them to help out with these kinds of applications… Could someone else be paying the bill? as a favor to Sally Kurtz?
Also Reed Smith is a firm that the SB contracts out to when outside attorneys are required.
Who represented Cangiano in this deal? If it was Reed Smith I’ll really have a cow.
Dave Culbert, another recent former Reed Smith partner, practicing in Leesburg…. tight crowd…
Amazing – so two former law partners at Reed Smith, who both at one time or another represented Cangiano, “negotiated” this contract??????????????????????????
Were they really so clueless to not think this would look REALLY BAD?????????????????
Not much time for research right now, but a quick search on Culbert dredged up this gem:
http://www.loudoun.gov/controls/speerio/resources/RenderContent.aspx?data=2b7fdee3abe34d5fba990bf42bebb3b9&tabid=310&fmpath=%2FSymposium
The same NVBIA that SB Chairman Robert DuPree once worked for – I guess they know each other real well.
For Banshee Reeks, the board only wanted to buy about 50 acres, but ended up buying 700 acres because Cangiano was not willing to sell just part of the farm.
Another “strange” deal was when Loudoun Healthcare sold Frazer Farm, south of Hamilton, to Cangiano in 1999, rejecting an offer from neighbors to match the price. The neighbors wanted to preserve the farm. (That farm had been donated to Loudoun Healthcare.)
Cangiano resold Frazer Farm to Toll brothers…he bought and sold several large tracts to Toll brothers…some thought he was a stealth agent?
Hazel,
I’ve readily said it should be re-evaluated as to the paid price.
Now, based on your argument of price, the two properties that Stinger is advocating are more in the realm of upwards of $2 to $3 MIL MORE than this one. How does THAT look better?
And neither party is selling, nor will they ever look at selling. I know Walt. He’s simply not interested.
And there’s that illegal land-flip that also incorporated a necessity of Moore’s eminent domain that blew this up last time.
All for a piece of property that is a mere 2 miles from the Maryland State Line.
So far those who want to elevate …er….actually nothing (because they can’t produce one viable and real-time alternative) in place of Wheatlands have readily endorsed 15 mile commutes by all of those of us out here who rely on business in Lovettsville, readily suppressed documentation that they are known to possess (because it was in their FOIA requests)and have readily endorsed eminent domain of any piece of property that they deem appropriate (damn what the owners of that property might want) for the purpose of shoving a school into Lovettsville a mere two miles from a bordering state.
Now that we truly understand how they roll, it’s much easier to dismiss them as a bunch of self-absorbed idiots who do not have their fellow citizen’s best interest at the crux of the matter….but those who have their own interest in the matter, the hell with the rest of the county.
RR….”Elaine Walker is unbelievably politically influential, particularly with Sally Kurtz. If you want to know why Kurtz voted against Broadlands Med Center, despite voting for it in 2005, it’s because Elaine Walker hates HCA since INOVA promised Lovettsville a health center (still not built yet).”
Precisely, friend. Pretty much straight forward.
But linking that to this is a stretch.
self absorbed idiot, good description for the poster above.
And in case some of you suffer reading comprehension and try to twist my desires into your own version of a truth…
I still support a school closer to Lovettsville if the bunch can provide a willing seller and a lower or feasible price tag….all on a piece of property that does not block a major artery that cannot grow. (some of you are actually in denial that 287 will become a 4 lane road at some point in the future—but that isn’t at all likely on Broad Street in Lovettsville.)
Thank you ANONYMOUS. A personal attack from someone too cowardly to post their name. My attack was GENERIC to the group, and pointed at numerous instances that make that group self-absorbed. Your’s was merely opinion with no supporting facts.
And if you don’t know who I am by now (I highly suspect that you do-but will readily throw out the anonymous curtain to support your lameness) you need to follow the site closer. I’m readily known to the site.
Anyone know why Leesburg Today hasn’t published any comments to the Lovettesville article since April 30th? Know there have been many comments that have been entered but none published. From the examples on this blog, there are plenty of opinions.
All this advice from King Nimby who blogged that his oh so important and in the know contacts said the meeting last week was just “hot air” because the SB had no money to buy the property? trying to get people not to go? You support the schools in Lville? yeah, right. Misinformation game for “sheep,” is what you are all about. People are smart enough not to believe what YOU say.
And 287 four lanes? How about 9? will that be four lanes soon too? What a joker you are King Nimby. HA HA.
“Since #5 points out Bulletproof Monk lives in Town, perhaps he/she is a big campaign donor of Walkers and she is simply pandering to him?”
JP…you’re kidding, right?
I successfully represented the interest of the bulk of businesses in Lovettsville and introduced an 8 month moratorium on fines that were about to be inflicted on those businesses by the Mayor.
I think she’s still miffed with me.
Ahhh… back to claiming a flip of the park is “illegal” are you? I recall last time you claimed this it was established that the County Attorney had given his opinion that it could be done legally.
Is your legal adviser the same one that told you they didn’t have the money to buy this land?
“And 287 four lanes? How about 9? will that be four lanes soon too? ”
I know it will become 4 lanes in time. Where, exactly, did I say “soon”?
Appreciate your cowardly personal attacks on me, unsigned one.
If you’ve ever wanted to lower your taxes
Now would be the time to ask your elected Supervisors and your school Board Representative to let the Wheatland School property contract go.If you do not contact those folks in mass, we’ll end up owning yet another piece of property at an outrageous price ($10.9MIL) and no building on it.
“Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
- The Bulletproof Monk, April 30
“Ahhh… back to claiming a flip of the park is “illegal” are you? ”
It is illegal, and opens the county to numerous lawsuits that they’ve subverted the intent of the people in the Bond that was issued.
You MUST put the flip back on the referendum and let the people “flip” it with their votes.
Nice Hillsboro….but since it IS my blog, I can change my mind readily…and your reposting of the material here without my endorsement (as the author)doesn’t prove anything. You gonna stand on that weak step?
I pulled the post when I found out that Stinger and company had poisoned the well with their relentless filial pursuit of the school , and their ready acceptance of eminent domain to do it.
She’s muddied the waters, yet again. She’s probably one of the handful that caused the pull of Grubb Farm and the very reason the SB closed the contracting exploration process to the public. People like Sarah stepped right in the middle of the deal and soured it.
#58, like not only not “soon,” but not in our life times–get real.
You are TOTALLY compromised, telling people not to go to the meeting, claiming there was no money to buy the site, that the contract was useless/meaningless, that there is no “workaround” in Lovettsville, trying to make people think 287 will be 4 lanes (and that would mean 9, too–all the way to 7?) and dissing those whose businesses will be destroyed (not just inconvenienced, like you..)
You have no credibility on this subject, you might as well go away.
I’ve tried to reach out to Sarah in the past to discuss things. Sarah just puts her head down and plows thru.
I’m better at it than she is…. so I’ve recently been shown there won’t be a “decent” discussion about it.
I know it bothers you, but I have tons of credibility on this subject. And I’m not going anywhere, so you might want to get some facts and some missing documentation from your side into the arena ….just for full presentation of all materials involved.
And to add that “sunshine” that LI wants to see in the proceedings, As soon as I have my hands on them, they’re going public– so you might as well produce them first.
39, sally has been caught red handed using numerous handles, on numerous occassions, on numerous blogs. In desperation I am sure you’d let her continue her habit. Additionally, the fact that you let sally and sarah be your investigators on this because you “don’t have time” doesn’t bode well for credibility. That’s my point. You should really go to a school board meeting sometime, or better yet you should try and talk to a school board member about the accusations and questions your investigators raise. You’d probably be surprised.
BO, screw you and your theories. Go play with your friends on the other site where they obviously allow multiple personality postings.
I’ve done plenty of investigation on my own – how about that plan above? Sally and Sarah have made a bunch of great points and unearthed a lot of good information, regardless of how you feel about them. That’s what it always is with you – how you personally feel about them as to how valid their opinions are.
I’ve talked to School Board members about this, BO, just not your special favorites.
Your side loses this one.
BPM, post whatever the hell you want to post. This deal sucks, no matter how f-ing crazy you may go over Miller.
As a law student who has taken professional responsibility, I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around the concept of an attorney representing an individual in private practice and then representing the school district in a land deal with that individual. While it is not, strictly speaking, a conflict of interest, there is a duty of loyalty to one’s clients that lasts longer than the course of representation and I would think it would have been better for Chapman to step aside in this instance and let an attorney who was not familiar with Cagiano work out this deal. At the very least, there is enough of an appearance of impropriety that the school system had to put out a press release.
Seems like that is just one more in a list of things that make this deal look bad.
Good observation from a fairfax resident outside looking in, Brian. The fact that the seller’s current attorney was once a law partner with Chapman at Reed Smith makes it smell even worse.
Leesburg Today has finally released its comments built up over several days from moderation purgatory:
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/05/04/schools/9795wheatland043009.txt
Recall Robert DuPree.
” Not Yet Needed”– are you kidding me. Show a little bit of vision and stop concentrating on the present ONLY or you will always be behind the growth with regard to capacity in schools. Seems to me that some refuse to get beyond the personalities and look toward the future be evaluating the models of other Counties that have come before Loudoun with its growth cycles. Many people here are determined to make the same mistakes which will cripple getting ahead of capacity as the remaining County builds out. My concern is no over “thuis deal” per say as it stands it does not look very solid, but the notion that somehow the County is not facing a huge issue regarding capacity given all the zoned for new development areas that have already been approved….though they may not as yet been built….this Insider is why you must ditch the “not yet needed” mentality. You can not have such notions when you talk about growth because you have to plan for the schools once the land is zoned/approved for buildout to accomodate the growth when it arrives, otherwise you are stuck with commercial and residential sprawl, over capacity in schools, and worse road infrastructure once the traffic counts rise with the increased growth.
AoF, I know all of that. I am very well versed on planning issues in this county. That still doesn’t negate the fact that this deal stinks. Of course they need to plan for the future, but going totally against the comprehensive plan is not the way to do it.
John Stevens has this to say on Twitter:
“Receiving a river of emails opposed to Wheatland-area school site. How to get accurate information to the public on this issue?”
Accurate information is already out there, John, that’s exactly why people are so pissed off about it!!!
“Sally and Sarah have made a bunch of great points and unearthed a lot of good information,”
Did you say that with a straight face?
Neither has presented a viable alternative.
I still support that we need to renegotiate the price…but the location should be studied against a viable candidate from up here. Trouble is, none exists.
Of at least four other properties, the owners either need more money…or will not sell.
Two of those properties are direct roadblocks to sustainable and currently viable operations in Lovettsville, and on the bulk of the required properties—neither is selling..
What facts did you miss?
BPM – I advocated for Miller until he wrote his letter in Jan 08 BECAUSE his rep said he would consider offers. LCPS hadn’t made an offer since their June 2006 offer of $4M so it seems reasonable that his agent was truthful because I don’t believe rumors as perhaps you depend on. As I said, the documents we FOIA’s prove he was willing up until January 2008 when he stated he was not. You have not provided adequate justification to explain his offers (and signed contracts) in 2006. It appears that you are the one that discards information you don’t like. I haven’t advocated for Miller for quite some time. I do think flipping the Park is viable if other Park sites could be identified. BECAUSE Sally told me the County Attorney determined it would be legal under specific circumstances. Mr. Burton also has suggested that after the bonds were paid in 2015 or so, a swap would be OK. Listen – I only advocate for finding sites. Since LCPS doesn’t want to do that, that burden falls to us who see the benefits of community schools. It is up to the School Board, County and Town to try to negotiate landowners into considering offers. Tell me this, do you think a 2-week RFP is valid? Do you think that if the SB is willing to spend $11.4M for 170 acres that other property owners that are closer to Lovettsville might be interested in selling? I think that possibility exists so I’d rather pursue all other options before settling for a school devoid of community benefits. I suggest you go to EPA’s Smart Growth website to do some of that research you claim you are so good at it so you too can see the cost-effectiveness and economic development opportunities near/in Town options would provide. The need for these schools is too far out to settle and rush into this decision, especially considering the price is far too high to justify land banking.
Lastly, I don’t recall you EVER reaching out to me. Feel free to have LI forward you my email and reach away. If you knew anything about me you would know I am reasonable and only expect public officials to tell the whole truth and not settle for mediocrity.
BPM – I advocated for Miller until he wrote his letter in Jan 08 BECAUSE his rep said he would consider offers. LCPS hadn’t made an offer since their June 2006 offer of $4M so it seems reasonable that his agent was truthful because I don’t believe rumors as perhaps you depend on. As I said, the documents we FOIA’s prove he was willing up until January 2008 when he stated he was not. You have not provided adequate justification to explain his offers (and signed contracts) in 2006. It appears that you are the one that discards information you don’t like. I haven’t advocated for Miller for quite some time. I do think flipping the Park is viable if other Park sites could be identified. BECAUSE Sally told me the County Attorney determined it would be legal under specific circumstances. Mr. Burton also has suggested that after the bonds were paid in 2015 or so, a swap would be OK. Listen – I only advocate for finding sites. Since LCPS doesn’t want to do that, that burden falls to us who see the benefits of community schools. It is up to the School Board, County and Town to try to negotiate landowners into considering offers. Tell me this, do you think a 2-week RFP is valid? Do you think that if the SB is willing to spend $11.4M for 170 acres that other property owners that are closer to Lovettsville might be interested in selling? I think that possibility exists so I’d rather pursue all other options before settling for a school devoid of community benefits. I suggest you go to EPA’s Smart Growth website to do some of that research you claim you are so good at it so you too can see the cost-effectiveness and economic development opportunities near/in Town options would provide. The need for these schools is too far out to settle and rush into this decision, especially considering the price is far too high to justify land banking.
Lastly, I don’t recall you EVER reaching out to me. Feel free to have LI forward you my email and reach away. If you knew anything about me you would know I am reasonable and only expect public officials to tell the whole truth and not settle for mediocrity.
Thank you Sarah…and to be fair, I drove out one evening back when I thought we were aligned. (quite some time ago) Later, I read your post on here(or Steven’s School site, actually) to learn that you were quite hostile in your remarks about me.
So, I did reach out…but you never knew about it, and after I saw the remarks… I just didn’t try again.
Those in the group above have been pretty directed towards the Miller Property. I think you even played along for a while above.
Like I’ve always said…. Find a “real” site with a willing seller…..for less than Sal’s place, that doesn’t “roadblock” the town, and I open up quite a bit.
BPM, LI has awakened the monster and there is no stopping them. He’s on for the ride on this one with the Green Apple gang driving the 1983 Ford Econovan.
LI why wouldn’t you want to hear what John Stevens has to say? Your researchers certainly aren’t going to do it as they have a driven agenda. You have to admit the track record is thick with these two, and at the least the other side should be heard.
Unless you want to be like that Jeff Wolinski guy who apparently was only interested in causing a riot during the public meeting last week, jump out of the van and get yourself some sanity, then come back with a balanced opinion.
>> Receiving a river of emails opposed to Wheatland-area school site. How to get accurate information to the public on this issue?
Mr. Stevens,
For starters, it took hundreds of dollars and many hours of effort to get accurate information via FOIA requests from LCPS.
That was the only way the public found out that there was no contingency clause for getting legislative approvals.
It was also the only way to know that the seller was required to demolish the historic home and barns within 60 days of settlement.
It took our own research to find that Mr. Cangiano’s subdivision has never been recorded — that he’s millions of dollars away from reaching that point, and that Cangiano has not furthered the subdivision process at all since he purchased from the Rackhams.
–
I appreciate that this is a good time to get ahead of the curve and purchase land well ahead of the need. By doing so, the purchaser has the luxury of getting the best terms and the best price without the risk inherent in hasty decisions.
You could throw a dead cat from here to the Grubb Property — the site that was soundly blasted by the Planning Commission in mid-2006, and which cost us over $700,000.
In light of this, purchasing this land without a Special Exception and Commission Permit contingency is a huge gamble. Doing so with no compelling reason for haste, when there are serious debt cap concerns, and when there are other pressing needs to be funded under the debt cap — is simply reckless. We’re likely to be stuck with surplus land worth a fraction of what we paid for it.
Thank you for being one of the few School Board members that is reaching out and willing to discuss this. While I disagree with you on the propriety of this contract, I greatly appreciate your openness.
Sincerely,
Dan
Dan Schmidt
And Sarah, the problem with donning “alligator skin”(As I’ve become accustomed to ) is that when someone lightens up and taps you on the shoulder instead of shouting, it’s harder to notice them.
I only dig in as deep as I think I need to, so that I weather the attacks well. I can be reasoned with on a personal level very well.
B.M. A huge pile. you live up to your moniker because you are certainly full of it, and I don’t mean Bulletproof!
You can’t be too busy traveling up and down the highway working, because you’ve been on this site all day. Get a grip and realize It’s not all about YOU!
BO, I’ve corresponded with Stevens and you would be very surprised at what he thinks about some issues. He’s obviously not a fan of your bud the current Chairman either.
The only person intent on causing a riot at that meeting was Paul Brown trying to stifle free speech.
BPM, get off your obsession with Miller. I even think it has problems, but I guarnatee there are other options available around town if site cirteria were adjusted. And LCPS only has itself to blame for their inflated offers. Compare that 2007 Cangiano deal and this one. Only LCPS likes to pay way above market value, and it’s their own damn fault.
more bad press for Loudoun schools – have they gotten the message yet?
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/05/04/news/fp200nalliance050409.txt
email from Scott York–looks like he thinks it is a bad deal, too:
“Thank you very much for taking the time to write me an email in regards to the Wheatland property. From the time the discussion of locating a high school north of Rt. 9 began, I have always preferred a location that would be adjacent to the town for several reasons. The current proposed site is in for a Special Exception which is a legislative application that will come before the Board. While I have not made a decision on that yet and will need to review the information that staff presents, I do believe that it is questionable whether it is supported within the language of the Comprehensive Plan. We all know that schools will be needed in this area; perhaps later than sooner now that housing sales have dropped. We need to make sure that in locating them that we had better get it right the first time and not live with a decision that is a huge mistake with a huge price tag.
Thank you.
Scott”
What BOS members besides Kurtz (who is pushing this) and Buckley (who supports virtually anything the SB does) could still be in favor of this deal???
I feel pretty certain the rest will vote to kill it if given the opportunity. Delgaudio is somewhat a question mark – this should be a no-brainer from a tax perspective, but I’ve heard he knows Cangiano well.
The other question mark in my mind is Burk – does she vote with the environmentalists as she usually does, or does she bow to pressure from her bosses at LCPS? This is yet another example of the real and perceived conflicts with Kelly Burk being a LCPS employee and a Supervisor.
Next step will be a revision of the “comprehensive plan” folks once this deal fails…just watch. Again, heed the examples set by other Boards throughout the State that went through the same growth phases as Loudoun. You don’t need an oracle to see the writing on the wall.
I just answered one of my own questions above by checking Cangiano’s political contributions online at VPAP:
http://www.vpap.org/donors/profile/money_out_details/67234?committee_id=1478&end_year=2006&filter_cmte=all&filter_cmte_radio=all&lookup_type=year&order=amount&page=1&start_year=2003
$1,000 to Eugene Delgaudio. Let’s see if he votes the right way for the taxpayer, or the right way for his donor.
“but I guarnatee there are other options available around town if site cirteria were adjusted.”
So bring them. Let’s talk specifics.
And isn’t it a little late to be counting Supervisors? I did that on Saturday.
Tracey , I know it’s 2009, and a lot of folks haven’t kept up. But did you know that I can post from my laptop and the modem adaptor!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s fanTAStic, isn’t it?
“$1,000 to Eugene Delgaudio. Let’s see if he votes the right way for the taxpayer, or the right way for his donor.”
Since they’re both on the same side this time, this is a no-brainer for Eugene.
BPM, as surely you learned through the hospital battles, the only count that matters is the one taken in votes. And you said this was dead anyway, remember?
Interestingly, Tracey…where are you reading this from, in order to know ? I hope you just got home, and aren’t posting from your employer’s cubicle.
Now you’re back to saying this is a good deal for the taxpayer, all in your efforts to keep this out of Lovettsville? After you agreed it was a bad deal at a grossly inflated price?
This one could be difficult for Eugene.
One one hand you have a developer who gave Eugene $1000. Eugene has often expressed his love for the development community.
On the other hand you have Eugene’s image as a fiscal conservative. While I don’t think Eugene is fiscally conservative many of his most loyal constituents do. This particular deal stinks so badly it will be difficult sell to most residents of Sterling Park.
Get out the popcorn.
Bottom line on the school “planning staff” is they are lazy, stuck in old ways, and don’t know their numbers nearly as well the people here in Ashburn that absolutely took their crappy-assed redistricting plan apart. And you tend to find all kind of interesting things when you FOIA the documents of these “public servants.” If they serve the public, why do they lie? If they serve the public, why do we have to dig to find the crap they hide?
This deal stinks, and does not address the real pressing needs of the moment. And in a case like this, these clowns should take several alternatives public, not just one. If the School Board had any balls, they’d get rid of the over-educated, under-performing jerk running this show.
Well my buddy Mark Foster and I designed his absolutely gorgeous estate in Loudoun.
He also founded NeuStar a fortune 500 company based in Loudoun and he is the inventor of the system where you can change your cell number from one cell carrier to another. 
Anyway he just gave one of the best speeches in front of the BOS why the School System should not buy this extremely over priced property. He got a very loud applause.
You all could not have a better person in this fight against this ridiculous attempt by the SB to buy this extremely overpriced land.
Anonymous above talking about my pal Mark Foster is me Leej
All of a sudden my name does not stay when I post.
I knew it was you right away with the smiley face, Lee!
Almost 70 speakers tonight against this. Andrea McGimsey was leading the charge with the protesters out front – good for her, and good for the county.
John Stevens acts like a school board member and denigrates citizen involvement in the public realm:
http://twitter.com/loudounschools
I heard a number of the vegetable farms’ regular clients were mighty upset about this and made the drive to let their voices be heard. Good for them – isn’t this what all this rural economy stuff is all about – getting people from closer in to come out here and spend money?
And making fun of McGimsey and York will really help your cause!
John Stevens – putting the Twit in Twitter!
What this may come down to is a game of Blink!
I wanted the existing deal off of the table in order to renegotiate with Sal, but with “real” leverage by the County this time, not the school board’s version of it.
Currently, they’ll table the issue until a planned meeting on Thursday. After that, the numbers to lay the gauntlet in front of the School Board could occur in the form of a resolution that states they will not support the building of the schools, if and when the School Board does purchase the land. It’s hinging on one person, and I’d just like to be the last person she talks to before she takes the dais.
After that, this arrogant School Board will purchase the land anyway, because -in their minds, they’ll just wait till this BOS is gone, and then get the next Board to build on it.
In the immediate future, I’d be getting a massive influx of folks to remind the School Board who they depend on to reelect them in 2011. Evidently, they’ve forgotten.
And in another matter, the County cannot legally step in to protect the old house. So. I suppose we need a lawyer to pursue civil action against the developer or the county for issuing the demolition permit.
“I knew this post would get BPM in a tizzy. The petition is quite straightforward, and there are a lot more than a few people pissed off about this deal.”
Okay, if it’s so straigh froward, break the numbers out for me. How many signed it because they’re fiscally conservative and think it’s too much money? I’m betting over half.
You’d probably contest that. See? There is no clear breakdown because of the wording.
I’m a little sick of this issue now. The deal sucks, both in terms of money and location. If the School Board pursues this to the bitter end, the end will indeed be very bitter for all of those pushing it. Lawsuits will be flying and discovery won’t be pretty.
Let me clarify that when I say “this arrogant School Board” I mean specifically Reed, Dupree and Hatrick. Evidently Stevens is on the downside, too.
Once the BOS enters their official response (post Thursday’s meeting) these are my bets for a status quo in attitude. “They’ve done it like this for years.”
I just read John Stevens twits and I am completely outraged by his lack of professionalism as an elected servant. This is cause for a separate email about thier apparant misunderstanding w/ the use of technology.
Could you imagine writing comments like this about your colleagues in your profession? What an asshat.
The Board needs to issue a resolution indicating that they can not support the SB contract for a variety of reasons AND also the Board needs to ask Jack Roberts to immediately seek a temporary injunction stopping the School Board from going forward on the contract, or settling on the property.
The following are some of the reasons which come to mind to support the temp injunction:
1. School Board has no authority to identify sites for schools. That power is reserved exclusively to the BoS in a special exception process, after public hearings before the PC. Further, this contract not only exceeds the SB authority and illegally grabs power to site schools, but also circumvents the public process with public input, necessary to determine all negative impacts, which any S/E must address.
2. Violates the comp plan/Lovettsville location-rural uses.
3. Irreparable Harm: 1.) to the aquifer, 2.) the reckless transportation impacts, 3.) the devastation of preferred farming uses, 4.) arrogant disregard of the public process and harm to the public, which is denied their rights under law, and 5.) harm to the BoS who is deprived of its lawful responsibility to site schools under a special exception process–the public will blame the BoS and could vote them out of office if they do not do something (that is..the Board members’ reputations are harmed by such underhanded moves to allow this kind of money to be spent without the proper process, and the credibility of their public offices are harmed…
4. Misuse of taxpayer $$s–which must be used ONLY to purchase land for a school (speculative at this point), not “surplus” land, “park” land or land to “swap” and the price is easily demonstrably over the top, not justified in any way.
5. Personal harm to adjacent landowners, including the long term stress and emotional harm of worrying about whether a school eduplex will be built in this location … if this deal is made.. not to mention the financial harm.
The Board needs to be very strong, and force the School Board to back out, or file suit immediately, with adjacent or directly impacted landowners joining in…
Sorry I missed the meeting…busy day/evening yesterday.
Since when is a citizens job to do what a whole office of paid staff is supposed to do = become land acquisition agents?
BPM – can’t your insider connections come up with some sites?
EMP because they are spending OUR tax dollars trying to acquire over priced land with many inbred connections between themselves. This whole deal stinks and is screwing the Loudoun tax payer. That is when citizens get involved when the paid staff is incompetent as well as the School board and Hatrick, then they need to be replaced.
anonymous 107 above is Leej replying to 106
The citizens last night spoke of the real issues. Anyone who says the Wheatland Alliance represents NIMBYs have ears that do not connect with their brains.
Even if the contract is killed, the powers will happily wait years for crowded conditions to return after Woodgrove/Harmony/LVHS and Blue ridge fill and throw up their hands and say, “Wheatland is the only place left where we can go.” That strategy has been proven over and over again.
John Stevens ‘twittered’ that I mentioned the HCA vote but he failed to put it in context. I pointed out that Buckley and Kurtz voted against HCA. With Buckley even quoted in the papers as opposing HCA because it was incompatible with the surrounding landuse. How in the world can those two support a school in Wheatland if they opposed HCA? It seems blatantly hypocritical to me.
Buckley is so good at looking speakers in the eye, making them feel like she is sincerely listening but in the end it seems that she does as she pleases. I heard she gave the School Board the go ahead with this site without the entire BOS voting on it. What the heck? The Joint Committeee say they are using the new acquisition process, Adamo said last week “Both Boards Approved This” and Buckley SHORT CIRCUITS the process?! Say it ain’t true!
So, what was it John Stevens and Kurtz were strategizing about last night? How they can keep Wheatland schools alive? Burton, Kurtz, Bergel and Mayor Walker have a closed door meeting this Thursday. Are they going to strategize how to keep schools in Wheatland?
The news release LCPS has posted says Wheatland will allow for minimal traffic mitigation. That’s the crux, they think by putting this in Wheatland they can avoid spending anything on mitigating impacts. Unbelievable.
Bergel’s strong defense of this decision is very sad. I campaigned hard for her and I know she has already done so much good in her role, but this decision, and worse her defense of it, does her a huge disservice. Even heroes can’t perform miracles I suppose.
Wow Sarah. The HCA decision is quite relevant isn’t it? Someone needs to get Kurtz’s and Buckley’s public statements on that and compare them to this situation. If a hospital is incompatibale in that situation, then there is no way that a three school complex is compatible in this one.
Adamo said last week that LCPS attorney Chapman hadn’t represented Cangiano for 15 years. Go to the LCPS’ new post to hear the truth. Speaking from my teenage experience, when you tell lies its hard to keep them all straight – its always better to just stick w/ the truth.
http://cmsweb1.loudoun.k12.va.us/509759161361/cwp/view.asp?A=3&Q=556300&C=92956
Hatrick and Adamo must go. If LCPS Board can’t do it, I’m looking forward to electing a new one that can.
RE: #109
Sarah, do you (or anyone) know of a PAC formed or forming to unseat Mayor Walker in the 2010 election? (If she runs for reelection that is, I haven’t heard anything one way or the other…)
If so, please post here with the information.
Just like Hatrick and his administration, Walker and her crowd has been in power too long and needs to be tossed out. This town is a mess. A High School would be a huge plus for town businesses. If they build it business will come. and better in town than down the road in the middle of nowhere.
The appraiser, Tom Reed, is an expert witness that Hazel Thomas (now Reed Smith) used to use in commercial property assessment challenges in court. He has ben around for a long time, and very connected to Reed Smith clients…
Funny when they are challenging assessments, the appraisals are always low. Now that they are trying to explain a very high value, the appraisal is unusually high. Cangiano would have screamed if the property were assessed this high…
Not a fair appraisal at all…
Interesting idea – Cangiano will have to pay more taxes if his little plan blows up in his face. Just desserts I’d say.
Bulletproof Monk: Some of us are opposing the LCPS on two issues: Process and Price. You cannot allow these folks to spend $12 million to acquire a property before we even know if schools can be built there. And the price the county is paying is so far above today’s market that you have to wonder who’s benefitting. Follow the money.
I know nothing about a PAC to unseat Mayor Walker. She obviously is passionate about the Town. I’m sure is very motivated to protect the Park she and citizens have worked admirably to acquire.
If the Town refuses to consider allowing the industrial park to be used for a school, some have suggested the 70 acre Shoene as ideal parkland. Why not have smaller schools on 70acres of the 94-acre Park and the 70 acre Shoene replacing lost Park space? It is co-located with the Community Center and near the library. The problem I have is LCPS demanding exclusive use of their own high school facilities. LVHS track is not available for public use after hours. As budgets tighten, more important than co-location is co-USE. If liability drives the issue, than let the County run the sports complexes with LCPS having first scheduling rights. County has construction and parks departments that could possibly be merged with same functions at LCPS for cost-efficiency, increased accessibility and more.
If anyone wanted to landbank anything, Shoene makes more sense to me – it is a fraction of the price, within sewer range, co-located with Community center and is contiguous to a growing Town WHERE SCHOOLS BELONG. The industrial park ain’t happening for the forseeable future so maybe a willingness will evolve for the industrial park to be sited on the outskirts of Town and allow a school to be the nexus instead.
My youngest is in private school in Leesburg, and that school uses Ida Lee and Morven Park for practices/track.
and for the Monkmeister – both a Park road and the Shoene/Engle assemblage would accomodate bypass options to minimize traffic on Broad Way. It will be fun to hear all the reasons why you and LCPS says these options are impossible to justify Wheatland.
As I stated before, LCPS specifically WITHHELD existing records that showed alternate road alignments for a Park access road. No offers were made to landowners on Loudoun Street to obtain that access. Officials preferred to focus on the Moore property condemnation as being the ONLY option.
sally’s kids go to private school!! Well that explains a lot doesn’t it Ollie.
Adamo said at last week’s public hearing that LCPS attorney Bil Chapman hadn’t represented Cangiano for over 15 years. Either he was totally clueless or lying, since LCPS put out another PR sheet on this stinky deal saying Chapman represented Cangiano in 2001-2003, including suing the Board of Supervisors over a downzoning. Well, this is one way to get a higher use than planned! Just sell to LCPS! And stick it to the BOS at the same time!
Like clockwork, BlackOut pops out of his hole for another personal attack. By my count, in the last 2 threads on this topic:
- 9 posts by BlackOut.
- 9 personal attacks on Sally, Lee, LI, Sarah and everybody that dares to criticize this awful deal.
- 0 posts rebutting the facts presented.
- 0 posts defending this stinky deal.
Since we all sang so well last night, how about a round of Pop Goes the Weasel!
“Like clockwork, BlackOut pops out of his hole…”
Where is a Black Hole when you need one.
John Stevens – putting the Twit in Twitter!
- Loudoun Insider
An effective use of the root word Twit.
BlackOut probably just hasn’t had time yet to get his talking points from DuPree.
The Wheatland deal is a black hole for our tax money, Greg.
The deal calls for us to pay more than TWICE what Cangiano paid in 2006 at the height of the market…
That said, maybe we should just call BlackOut, BlackHole– he likes throwing money away!
He is a Blackhole, the place where money and the truth disappear.
Sally is #1 (SB not being allowed to identify sites) in the County Charter? Its not like that here. In fact the SB is heavily involved as the the SB has its on portion of the CIP (Captial Improvment Program) from the sale of bonds that were approved by referendum in 2002. Again thats here, I am surprised the SB does not have the ability to be involved in the process there given it is revenues that they must spend out of their portion of the budget. Afterall, who is it that must justify redistricting plan, the SB or the BOS?
Alter,
Our zoning ordinance requires that any school is a special exception use, and only the Board of Supervisors can site a school after public hearings.
The School Board only has authority to buy or build schools, not speculate on land for ten years that may or not be suitable for a school, which may end up, as they told us, being “surplus” or “park” or ’swap” land….
Look at 22.1-79 of the Virginia Code, and you will see the School Board does not have the authority to speculate on land that it “might” be useable as a school.
The SB on its own determines school districts, and redistricting, and once it has its budget, how to spend it on salaries and academic programs.
As for CIP’s, I believe that their budget expenditures must be approved by the BoS, under the School Board’s budget authority…
RE: #117 Mayor Walker may be “passionate about the town” but that isn’t working in Lovettsville’s favor now, if it ever was. Twenty years is long enough for anyone to hold ANY elected office.
Leesburg Today TV News said today that, “A group of Supervisors, School Board members and Lovettsville Mayor Elaine Walker plan to meet later this week to discuss their options”. Hmmm……
http://www.leesburg2day.com/
An article about the protest and BoS meeting last night is here: http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/05/05/news/fp198wheatland050509.txt
I admit, it started out being a NIMBY issue for me living here in Wheatland, but once I learned more about the project… even just touching the surface of information available… it went from being a NIMBY issue to complete disgust at the irresponsible disregard to the Revised General Plan. This deal stinks of corruption and the good ol’ boys network NO MATTER which issue you look at. I’m a teacher for goodness sakes, so I’m all for schools… but I’m for smart growth… NEVER have a heard of closing on a deal, especially this large, without doing due diligence… How it could have ever gotten to the point of a non-contingent contract without doing any research to see if it is even suitable for school buildings is beyond my comprehension! I would NEVER even think of buying a house or even something as simple as a toaster without doing ANY research… I’m completed disgusted… along with hundreds of others ALL OVER LOUDOUN COUNTY obviously… I am counting on the BOS to void this contract… and if that doesn’t happen, I’m going to be taking my vote elsewhere…
Don’t know if this has been posted, but 200 acres “near Wheatland” with road frontage on 3 sides, preliminary subdivision approval for 38 lots, for sale for 3.4 million dollars…
MLS# LO7027260
Eleven plus million for this land is an incredible rip off…
It just keeps getting worse. Jen Bergel and Sally Kurtz won’t like folks to see this. Great find Sally!
This is the GGH Holdings property. 40 more acres than Cangiano for only 3.4 million. I don’t think you could find a better comparable than this.
In their first “fact sheet” LCPS claimed Cangiano was fully subdivided. In the freshly re-baked version released yesterday, they admit that it only has preliminary subdivision approval.
Don’t forget the Danner Property is also on the market for $1.2 mil
This is LCPS’s commentary on these two parcels:
3. Danner Property (166 acres): Located at 38197 Morrisonville Road midway between Route 287 and Route 690. There are significant, required road improvements and right-of-way acquisition associated with this land. Its hydrogeological/drainfield conditions are unknown.
4. GGH Holdings Property (193.97): This property consists of three adjacent parcels at the intersection of Mountain Road and Legard Farm Road. Its hydrogeological/drainfield conditions are unknown.
“Some of us are opposing the LCPS on two issues: Process and Price.”
Like the gentleman last night who purchased trucking sites thruout the US for years said: “Once all of the particular elements we needed on sites were met, only then did we go to contract and negotiate price.”
I told him… “That’s because that’s how it’s done in the real world, but this is Hatrick/business101. Put the cart in front of the horse and let him push it.”
Here’s *my commentary on the property under contract:
Cangiano/Burgess Property (170 acres): Located at the intersection of Route 287 and John Wolford Road, one half mile north of Route 9. There are significant, required road improvements associated with this land. Its hydrogeological/drainfield conditions are unknown.
“Mayor Walker may be “passionate about the town” but that isn’t working in Lovettsville’s favor now, if it ever was. Twenty years is long enough for anyone to hold ANY elected office.”
So. challenge her. Last election, she squashed her opponent (if you could call him that) in a 168 to 45 “landslide.
And that was up by one vote from an election four years ago that resulted 165 to 44 .
Get crackin’.
There will be no land swap without the appropriate referendum on the November ballot.
If you wish to do this legally, you’d better start plannning to get your “Shall the County” question on the ballot now.
Anything less subverts the will of the people and can be challenged in court.
And I had a very pleasant conversation with someone who’d know this afternoon.
#134 & 135 For the GGH holdings (200 acres “near Wheatland” with prelim approval for 38 lots on the market for 3.4 million) the multiple listing says 19 wells have been drilled–and there is a hydro-geo report on file with the County, required as part of the prelim approval…
L’viile, you’ve shown an amazing aptitude at planning and analysis.
Have you considered a career with LCPS? Ever reconstructed the Afro-Brazilian population in Rio? Along with the exceptional computer skills you possess, you are more than qualified, my friend!
RE: #141: Too funny and guess what? I actually have been to Rio and I bet that I can think of
SOMETHING I reconstructed while I was there.
I’m a shoe-in for the job…;)
I posted this earlier but it never showed up. Leesburg Today TV News said tonight that, “A group of Supervisors, School Board members and Elaine Walker will meet later this week to discuss their options”.
Wonder what that means?
L’Ville and Hillsboro – that’s some funny reparte!
I’m almost starting to feel sorry for poor Sam.
Nahhh. He’s got the job, he better perform.
One more time – this deal SUCKS.
>>>Don’t know if this has been posted, but 200 acres “near Wheatland” with road frontage on 3 sides, preliminary subdivision approval for 38 lots, for sale for 3.4 million dollars…
MLS# LO7027260<<<
SHHHHH………….Sal will buy it and sell it to the SB at three times the price.
That property (200 acres at 3.4 million, prelim approval for 38 lots) is too close to Kurtz friend Bazzaco… you know you can’t put the school near her friends!
She let him out of an ag district in 2006 so he could subdivide before the downzoning. You all know my ag district (expiration date was a “typo” and Judge Horne allowed me to subdivide without withdrawal–contrary to county position) saga. Just another testimony to the double standards in the County, where some can do nothing, and others can do whatever they want, and get paid handsomely…. we need to demand fairness in all public process.
WaPo story:
http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/news/2009/may/05/western-loudoun-residents-protest-school-building-/?local
You know Sally, I’m starting to believe you were singled out now. I must admit you got on my nerves plenty, but there should be more consistency in this county. As the subject matter of this post points out, it seems that those in power get what they want, even if it conflicts with their public pronouncements on policy.
LTM:
http://www.loudountimes.com/news/2009/may/05/controversy-brews-over-wheatland-schools-site/
Leesburg Today:
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/05/06/schools/9794wheatland050509.txt
Loudoun Independent:
http://www.loudouni.com/education/2009-05-05/opposition-again-raised-western-schools
RE: #149 I just read this Times-Mirror article this morning and was going to post it, thanks LI. I am appalled at Jennifer Bergels’ comments: <<>>
“Most of the people in the area weren’t there?” Was she at the same meeting on April 29th that I was? The school cafeteria was packed and 95%? 98%? of the people I heard speak were from Lovettsville or Wheatland. I am so disappointed in her!!
Also from the LT-M article:
<<>>
:::off to form my own PAC:::
Well, L’Ville, once again the School Board shows contempt for anyone who dares to question their infinite wisdom. They are now trying to paint those who spoke at that meeting as an out of control mob of selfish NIMBYs. I have news for them – that’s a sure fire way to lose your battle and get tossed out of office. Very stupid move.
ugggggggh, this blog is reading my quote symbols as HTML code? I guess? and deleting what’s between them?
Oh well, re: #153, it was the bit about Mayor Walker at the end of the LT-M article in the quotes.
#140 Monk – assuming you are correct, do you really think eastern voters would approve purchase of $11.4M site when they could have had one at no extra cost after the bonds are paid? You will have quite a task pulling together a grass roots movement to get the east to pay for an $11M Park for the west.
Anon….you need to look at what you typed, or educate yourself to the real matter. What you typed didn’t make sense.
The Park EXISTS. The Bonds are approved and we, as a County are already paying for it.
To “swap” this for another piece of ground, would first require that we purchase a piece of ground to swap it with. Currently, the one being most discussed is in the realm of $13MIL, even as it currently carries an industrial designation…and has for the past 20 years.
In addition, the Park was fought for and partially financed by Lovettsville citizens (thru programs like “Pennies for the Park” events, etc….) and finally brought out for referendum in November 2004. It passed, and in that moment, became the representation of “the people of Loudoun County” will that the Park be situated on the 91 acres.
I’m not saying that the Park cannot be “swapped”. I’m saying that the requirement will be a newer Referendum that ask the folks of Loudoun to demonstrate by ballot that they’re okay with that.
The Park was costly, but buying $13 MIL in MORE PROPERTY to “see” if you can swap it is one of the dumbest things the School Board could do. In light of their recent antics, I’m not seriously ruling out their attempts to exceed in stupidity, however.
A) The Miller propery is not for sale
B) Condemnation is NOT okay when you have a willing seller
c) Condemnation of the Miller site would also require condemnation of the part of the Moore’s propaerty…A family that has been in Lovettsville for generations. I think I can ask my kids to go 4 MILES if it means not screwing somebody out of their land…
D) Just how badly do you want a school? Is it really worth “stealing” ?
For God’s sakes, no one is suggesting condemning the Miller property here. Get over it.
Trust me…the Miller property is NOT for sale at any price. $ is not an issue….
Nothing adjacent to or in town is available that works and Wheatlands is expensive…maybe it’s time to realize that Lovettsville is not the place for a school… regardless of how much as we want it…time to move on…
There may not be anything that works in or adjacent to Lovettsville TODAY, but no one knows what may be on the market next year or in five years….Woodgrove isn’t even built yet and the Loudoun real estate boom is over (or hadn’t you heard?) There is absolutely no need to rush into any land deals, much less one with so many problems and unanswered questions.
There is nothing that is not for sale, at the right price, other than our children. So, no, Rachel, we won’t trust you on that because it’s a silly statement.
Not putting the school in, or at least next to, Lovettsville is cutting short our children, our families, and our local businesses.
I was so happy to read here that the Wheatland group does not support and is not secretly pushing for condemnation of local properties. I heard that this was their agenda in order to keep the school from their vicinity…
I agree that we need a school, but disagree that everything is for sale at the right price. I believe there are those that put their hard work, family values, family farms, etc…over a price tag.
FollyFamily- I heard the same thing. It is a relief to know we have these amazing and committed folks our side (anti-condemnation at all costs) if it were ever to come to that. They are well organized and charismatic.
Silly statement? Maybe. Cutting the kids short? Probably. But, one can not shake a genie bottle and just create accessable, 100% usable, available land. At some point, The “powers that be” might just say, “Nothing works.”
By the way, we ALL got the same form letter from Scott York. I wrote to him in favor of the Wheatland site. So did my neighbors and friends with high schoolers.
Everything is for sale for the right price? Wow…I am assuming that means you all would sell your farms at this price per acre? So, how does that make Sal a bad guy? It’s basic capitalism. Hang the school board, not Cangiano…the man’s a genius.
I absolutely do not blame Cangiano for this stupid deal. The School Board and school administration simply proved once again that they are totally inept in securing land at reasonable prices. The School Board, geniuses that they are, voted 8-1 in favor of this over-priced, one-sided contract. At least the only lawyer on the School Board, Bob Ohneiser, saw the problems with this and voted against it. He deserves thanks in this instance.
“For God’s sakes, no one is suggesting condemning the Miller property here. Get over it.”
Are you this naive on the point, LI…. or are you readily participating in the debunking of the rumor, so it’s even more of a surprise?
Some are indeed pushing Wheatland off of the table to make room for a Lovettsville Property. And it has fueled their desire to say that nothing is available- so we must be ready with plans to condemn. You can deny that, but it’s happening right now.
And it will not work out well for the names of those I find connected to the extreme positions. Eminent Domain for a property to “land bank”? With no immediateneed right now, the logic to condemn is lunacy.
Rachel: No worries. IF Wheatlands falls through, there is NO WAY Jennifer Bergel and Jim Burton would allow condemnation. NOT after publically speaking and promising against it. I, for one, trust them and so do many others.
Isn’t the Shoene property a major flood plain? How many acres is it? How much would it cost to reconstruct the roads to allow it??? I don’t want my kids on a bus at the Lovettsville/Milltown Road curve! NO Way!
BPM you should know by now that I am never “naive”. And I absolutely am not involved in some evil conspiracy to condemn land. Give me a break.
As you said, there is no need for this land at this time, and this stinky deal at an inflated price is not a good deal for the taxpayers. The only people involved in secret plans are the bungling School Board and school administration.
New to party gang. I don’t know who Bullet Proof Monk is but, dude, you’re spot on about condemantion. Small Town Schools is trying to eliminate every site until nothing north of Rt. 9 is left…except land in Lovettsville. Then the country decides to use eminent domain and Small Town Schools can stand back and watch it happen–without saying a word.
Do you think the Wheatlands Alliance and STS is going to rally around the Miller family when Loudoun County swoops down to condemn? Heck no. And then all the players will sit back and pretend to be shocked and dismayed…while they’re throwing a party to celebrate victory.
Let everyone on this site be aware that if the county tries to condemn Miller it’ll be “game on” and this little town won’t know what hit them. I’m with you, BPM. It won’t be pretty.
What a bunch of fear mongering nonsense. probably put up to this by Kurtz and Adamo who derailed that in the first place back when Miller was entertaining offers. That’s what this post is about, the push to eliminate sites so that Wheatland was their chosen only option. Which is still BS – there is no final option and these schools aren’t needed for years. With the prices the School Board is willing to pay, I bet there would be plenty of landowners willing to reconsider.
@ Loudoun Insider
Hope you’re right. I’d be very happy to learn that there are willing sellers with usable land.
And if the county is willing to wait to buy…even better.
I’m not gung ho on Wheatland and haven’t been put up to this by anyone…very sad that posters don’t think there are still “free thinkers” who don’t buy into either side whole-heartedly. Both sides have valid points.
But, if condemnation comes to Lovettsville we can thank Small Town Schools. There is no denying this point…and your finger pointing is pointless.
A mom at the LES just told me about this blog. I am relieved to be able to be anonymous and say that I am all for the Wheatland site. Not all of us in the Wheatland area are against it. We know if we step forward, we will be scrutinized and taken off the Christmas card and neighborhood BBQ list. Our kids play with your kids, we want to keep it that way.
What a bunch of crap that is, HiM. You’ve commented from the same IP as the following names:
Folly Family
Rachel
DAD of 6
Preschool Mommy
and now, Hiding in Morrisonville
You seem to have sexual identity issues! One name per IP please.
I just went back and re-read the comments – you also seem to have multiple personality disorder, speaking to your various alter egos! Thanks for the laughs.
This is the huge outpouring of support for this crummy deal that Bergel keeps talking about?
LOLOLOL
I’m glad you’re as amused as I am! Now stick to one handle.
Apparently another FOS (friend of Sal), LI. I think that’s why Barb showed up at the Wash Post thread to derail the topic. My speculation/opinion only…
Sally, I haven’t agreed with much of what you’ve said these past couple of years. On this issue, though, you have lots of good thoughts. The deal does smell and the legitimacy of it all should be thoroughly examined, from many perspectives.
.
All along I thought it was Hatrick that was scamming us all. Now, I’m more convinced he’s practically an idiot, unable to see the scam that Sam Adamo is perpetrating on us and him. Adamo’s claim to fame at his prior school district job in Arizona or wherever it was, as I understand it, was buying property and holding it for a couple of years and reselling it at a profit for the school board to buy what it really wanted all along but couldn’t afford. It’s not working this time, Sam. So quit spending MY damn money so recklessly.
.
I have no dog in the NIMBY fight that y’all have been slogging through on this and other threads for weeks now, but I do have a fiscal bone to pick with the whole process that allows a contract to be signed (once again by DuPree, if I’m not mistaken — just like the Greenvest property on Lenah Road) with no reasonable bailout clauses. WTF are you thinking about, Sam? Robert? Priscilla? Et al.? Even if we can get out of the closing, it still will cost us earnest money, etc., that has been — exactly like the Greenvest property — thrown away for no good reason.
.
Why is history, especially VERY recent history, so godawful hard to remember? Can you SB members really not remember the extremely simple saying, “Been there; done that?”
.
Take heed, you chuckleheads. I hope you can remember this very worthy organization:
LC2007
It hasn’t been all that long ago that the citizenry of this county rose up in rebellion to take back our rights of redress against an oppressive Board of Supervisors. It can and will happen again if you continue to bury your heads and our wallets in the mire of shady politics.
.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Love me..and me…and me;-) Okay, but I made some good points that others will not address due to intimidation…Let’s move on…
Is there a reason the Alliance is not recommending other sites? They must be out there…PH Miller looks great. I am tired of hearing about road improvements…any site will need that, right?
Be Careful: Ugliness is everywhere…
Here’s How Politics Are Personal
By Tammi Marcoullier at 8:42 p.m., October 3, 2007 (263 comments)
This is one example of how our local politics has gotten so personal and ugly:
First tangle: At yesterday’s Board of Supervisor’s meeting, resident Sally Mann read an email that had been obtained through her Freedom on Information Act (FOIA) request for some of Supervisor Jim Burton’s (Blue Ridge) correspondence. Given that Burton and many of the folks who had written to him were unhappy that Mann was entitled to access to the correspondence, this move was sure to stir the pot.
Second tangle: Sure enough, Supervisor Steve Snow (Dulles) brought up the issue again later in the meeting, reading specific passages from the email in question. But his aim was not to defend Burton. It seems that the email contains a snarky remark from county resident and Republican party member Jeff Wolinski about Ms. Mann’s personal life. (Just FYI, Wolinski and Snow have had heated arguments in the past about the Loudoun County Republican Party policies and insider issues.)
Why did Snow read parts of the email after Mann? “I reiterated it based on the basic crass nature of it and also the fact that he’s been working with Mr. Burton for a number of months in an effort to discredit me and others,” said Snow. “This is Loudoun’s version of Moveon.org. It is sad, because it would be better if they would stick to the issues.”
Third tangle: Wolinski said he heard about Snow’s reading of the e-mail as he was driving home after work. He took a detour to Leesburg, he said, and made a “grand entrance” to the supervisor’s meeting by banging through the doors to the chamber room. Then, he said, he walked down the side of the room and made his way along the front row, staring down Steve Snow the entire way, then sitting right in front of him.
Snow said that Wolinski was wearing a hat, so he didn’t even recognize him.
According to Wolinski, soon after taking his seat, supervisors Bruce Tulloch and Mick Staton separately made their way to the sheriff’s deputy who was on duty, presumably to warn him about Wolinski. According to Wolinski, he talked to the deputy about why he was there and his intentions, then went back into the room, sitting in front of Snow again.
Snow said he did not see that incident, he was reviewing his notes.
Fourth tangle: Wolinski and Snow face off after the meeting. According to Wolinski, he approached Snow and two of his associates in the lobby to talk about the e-mail issue. Snow said, “I was out in the lobby talking to my aide and another citizen, and Mr. Wolinski burst into the group and brushed or hit my aide and said some threatening things. And I said, ‘You threatened me; the conversation’s over, goodbye.’ He stood there and stared at me menacingly about 10 seconds; I said goodbye again.”
Snow and his aide went to the sheriff’s office afterward to file a complaint. “The gentleman’s actions made me feel threatened, it was the way he approached that made me very uncomfortable,” said Snow’s aide. She explained that Wolinski was intensely focused on Snow and may not even recall this.
“I categorically deny bumping anyone and it is a shame Mr. Snow has to resort to such tactics,” Wolinski said.
Details about the Wolinski/Mann/Burton email have made their way into comments on a previous post on this blog, but I’m guessing you don’t want to wade through 200 comments to figure out what is going on, so here are some snippets:
From Sally Mann, “Mr. Wolinski, Is your brand of “good open government” to use your INSIDER influence to tell elected officials to ignore me because I am not getting enough of “it” at home? You should stop now. You are making things worse.”
From Wolinski: “Please re-read my email with an open mind, I am obviously referring to attention; the inference to your “sexuality” is yours alone. I see that we will now engage in a Clintonesque battle over what the definition of “it” is!”
Ultimately, what the people mired in this muck are trying to do is to influence local politics to get their way, right or wrong. You can read through their issues in blog comments as noted above or see this candidate guide, then judge for yourself.
Something is wrong in so many states of Denmark;-) On both sides…
This was sent to me by someone I didn’t even realize was “in the loop”…With this behavior and his behavior at last weeks meeting…it’s no wonder the “other side” is scared to show up…DAAAAA!
Re: #183, 184, 185
What does all this have to do with the issue at hand? If you’re trying to muddy the waters, it’s not working…
LI has agreed that I got singled out. It was wrong what they did to me.
Now I think everyone recognizes it. I was willing to litigate it and put it before the Circuit Court. There is a lot of evil in our public bodies–power hungry people who do not care who gets hurt, how it impacts an individual, a family, financially or otherwise…and are willing to lie to get their way or spin things to meet their agenda.
I have had some big fights, in public. I don’t like some of what happened on this site or with Jeff W. I don’t agree with mean spirited tactics.
But that does not mean that I will not state my honest opinion, even when I agree with LI or Jeff. I have attacked a lot of people, Scott York, Jim Burton included, when I thought they were dead wrong. But I have no problem agreeing with them when I think they have the public’s best interest at heart.
In this case, I honestly cannot think of why anyone would think this was a good idea to buy this land now, at this price, with our comp plan language and zoning ordinance provisions, etc…
Now you’re acting like you’re in preschool, mommy! Intimidation? Give me a break. Steve Snow was the master of it and simply couldn’t deal with anyone standing up to him. This School Board is the same way. I hope that poor woman who stood up against this deal last week who works for the schools is OK. They are famous for retaliating against people who speak up against the rulers.
I absolutely agree with LI here, it is not the neighbors who can retaliate and make your life a living h#ll, it is your government. That is who we need to fear, and that might be one reason LI is anonymous, as are many people here–they do not want to be subjected to what happened to me when I took them on…with FOIA’s and lawsuits…
I am not exactly anonymous, and I have a single recognized internet handle. I simply enjoy the mysterious element and see no reason to make things easy on people to find out who I am. As anyone who knows me knows, I am not afraid to speak my mind in person either.
The controversy over this deal isn’t really about personalities on either side, it’s about a bad deal for the taxpayers. The price is too high, the location is absolutely not in compliance with the comprehensive plan, and the terms of the contract are so one-sided towards the seller that the real costs associated with this deal won’t be known for a long long time. Loudoun County certainly can do better. It’s too bad it takes this much of an uproar from concerned citizens to get proper consideration.
See what I mean – Preschool Mom – FOS. She/he comes on the scene the same time Barb shows up attempting to muddy the waters at the Wash Post thread. An orchestrated attempt to obfuscate. LI, Sally – stay on message and retain the higher moral ground – you guy are dead right on this one.
I know we are, along with a bunch of other smart people who are well educated on the specifics of this crummy deal. This goes way beyond simple NIMBYism.
WOW! Sal dropped his price to $47,500 and extended the water sample timing! Thanks or assurring our schools, Sal!