Too Conservative

19 Comments

1. 
   Brian S
   on October 26th, 2009 at 5:52pm
   
   
   

   That’s unfortunate. I like Pawlenty – he’s probably my first choice for President in 2012.

   
   
2. 
   NovaConservative
   on October 26th, 2009 at 6:11pm
   
   
   

   Perhaps it is ever so slowly dawning on you that you are the one that’s wrong on this race? Here you have a conservative who is being backed by a plurality of independents AND conservatives–seems to me we’ve been trying to blend together that combo for years now, especially in places like NY.

   Just because The Eleven made a different choice doesn’t mean the rest of the party can’t wake up and smell the coffee. Fred Thompson and Tim Pawlenty are serious people–you can’t write them off as just right wing crazies.

   
   
3. 
   Kevin
   on October 26th, 2009 at 6:15pm
   
   
   

   What’s unfortunate about it? Hoffman is the best chance to keep the seat Republican. She has been endorsed by th DKos founder and NARAL. She even supports tax-funded abortions. In Newt Gingrich’s defense of DeDe said that he had assurances that she would vote for Boehner for Speaker. Everybody knows without asking how Hoffman would vote.

   
   
4. 
   Brian S
   on October 26th, 2009 at 6:24pm
   
   
   

   What’s unfortunate about it is that Hoffman isn’t the Republican nominee. NC, I know you don’t seem to think that a candidate chosen via the party leadership as part of the party plan is valid, but I disagree.
   .
   As I said in the other thread, this kind of internecine fight diverts attention from the real races that matter and gives the national media the kind of internal food fight between conservatives and moderates they love to report on.

   
   
5. 
   Kevin
   on October 26th, 2009 at 6:38pm
   
   
   

   They made a terrible selection of someone who will vote with the Democrats on issue after issue. She is more liberal than the Democrat nominee. Just because she has a “R” after her name doesn’t mean we should support her. I am sure I can find a Republican nominee that you would not have supported in the past and would have approved of the national parties opposing even when they were nominated by a primary.

   
   
6. 
   FairfaxGardener
   on October 26th, 2009 at 7:13pm
   
   
   

   Principle first, party second. Hoffman will still causus with the GOP…and vote more inline with the GOP platform than Scozzafava.

   
   
7. 
   NovaConservative
   on October 26th, 2009 at 8:23pm
   
   
   

   Its not about whether the candidate is “valid” or not. I have no idea what the NY party plan says, and therefore I can’t comment on it. I can tell you that the trust between party leadership and everyone else really has been violated with the selection of this particular candidate.

   For the record, I have long been an opponent of the convention system in Virginia. I think we ought to have primaries, and I’ve never been all that worried about people “intruding” into the GOP primary. I’d rather have party registration, but the lesser of two evils in my view is including more people rather than fewer. At least the process is somewhat democratic.

   There are few people on here–probably nobody–who understands the value of the party more than I do, for reasons I shall not elaborate on. It isn’t like I have some kind of axe to grind against the Republican party. In fact, I generally have little tolerance for these things–people who complain that Bush wasn’t conservative enough, McCain was this or that, etc. No thanks. That’s not me.

   And it also isn’t Fred Thompson. Or Tim Pawlenty. But every once and a while–not very often at all–there comes a case SO egregious that it requires some thought. This is one of those cases. Essentially, the choice is to support the Republican nominee and therefore empower a small group of people who made an epically bad decision–or to support a candidate that I believe CAN win and will also caucus with the GOP. I don’t think it is neccessary to get so melodramatic as to call it a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican party or whatever, but at a certain point, if you dilute the party TOO much in the wrong places, you really are facing a total collapse. And that’s where I am here.

   Big tent or not, there ought to be a couple of very basic principles we, as Republicans, should agree on. And if we can’t do that, than we really ought to just cease to exist. One of those is that groups like ACORN are no good for the political process. Another is that union bosses shouldn’t be able to intimidate their employees and force them to unionize. And so on… and so I think its damn important to say, wait a minute…these eleven guys shouldn’t be able to take even THAT away from us. But that’s what they’ve done here–and so its important to stand up say “no.” This party is better than that–it isn’t that meaningless.

   I’m not interested in losing to prove a point. I’m interested in this case because we can WIN and prove a point.

   
   
8. 
   kelley in virginia
   on October 27th, 2009 at 4:54am
   
   
   

   Brian, you have a good point. Your point is valid because if we don’t all stick together, we will all hang separately (to paraphrase a good Republican). However, if I lived in that district, I would not be able to vote for that woman. period. Not only do I hope the Reps in Congress “get the message” here, I hope alot of Dems do as well. (maybe our gubernatorial race will open their eyes).

   
   
9. 
   Michael
   on October 27th, 2009 at 7:07am
   
   
   

   I hope Hoffman wins!

   
   
10. 
    RichmondDem
    on October 27th, 2009 at 8:17am
    
    
    

    Really Brian? I think Pawlenty is competent but he’s extremely boring, he would have the same problem Al Gore did in a general election.

    
    
11. 
    PWConservative
    on October 27th, 2009 at 8:22am
    
    
    

    Which candidate represent’s the platform of the Republican Party? Hoffman. We don’t need collectivists to muddy the brand. Hoffman also happens to be leading in the polls. Now, I’m a staunch Republican, But I still vote for the Candidate over the label.

    
    
12. 
    I Bleed Obama Blue
    on October 27th, 2009 at 8:40am
    
    
    

    *
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    Reality Check: NY-23 Poll May Seek to Alter, Not Reflect, Reality
    *
    There’s a lot of buzz in the conservative blogosphere today about a new poll put out by the Club For Growth which shows Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman leading both Democrat Bill Owens and Republican Dede Scozzafava in the special Congressional election in New York’s 23rd Congressional District. The poll shows Hoffman at 31 percent, Owens at 27 percent, Scozzafava at 20 percent, and 22 percent undecided.
    *
    It’s a bit disturbing how credulously the conservative blogs, most of whom are rooting for Hoffman, are taking this poll. Here are few of the concerns that a more critical observer might ask about it:
    *
    – The Club for Growth endorsed Hoffman and just last week threw $300,000 into the race on his behalf.
    – The sample size is tiny (300 people).
    – The pollster that Club for Growth is using, Basswood Research — I’m sure does perfectly good work for its clients — but is not that well known** and is therefore not taking too much reputational risk with this poll. (** I’m told that Basswood does in fact do a decent amount of work for Republican candidates like Tom Coburn and Mark Sanford.)
    – The number of undecideds in the poll — 22 percent — is unusual for a poll just eight days out from an election and is higher than what the public polls show.
    – The poll was conducted entirely over the weekend. Although Sunday is a fairly good polling day, Saturdays are not.
    – The narrative that Club for Growth constructs around the poll is that Hoffman is taking votes from Scozzafava, but the poll also shows the Democrat Owens polling quite a bit lower than he does in the public polls. It seems unlikely that Owens voters are defecting to Hoffman. Rather, if Scozzafava’s support is indeed collapsing, I’d expect Owens to be picking up some of that support in addition to Hoffman.
    – The poll was released at a time when the NRCC, which has endorsed Scozzafava, is defending its position by citing the polling evidence, and so the incentive to put out some contrary evidence to alter the inflection of the media narrative is quite high.
    – The poll shows that 59 percent of so-called likely voters have no opinion (or haven’t heard of) Owens, 48 percent have no opinion of Scozzafava, and 56 percent have no opinion of Hoffman.
    – Only 14 percent of the likely voters in this poll are age 40 or under, as compared with about 40 percent in the Research 2000 poll.
    – Previous polls put out by Basswood Research and the Club for Growth in this race featured highly leading question wording, although that does not appear to be the case here.
    *
    Are any of these red flags, unto themselves? No, just a lot of yellow. To be clear, this is very probably not a case, a la Strategic Vision, where the numbers were simply fabricated. But there’s an awful lot that a pollster can do short of making up numbers — asking leading questions, applying implausible likely voter models or demographic weightings, selecting an unorthodox sample frame, etc. — to produce a result that fits its desired narrative.

    
    
13. 
    Dan (Not the liberal one)
    on October 27th, 2009 at 9:07am
    
    
    

    Brian, my country comes before my party. A Hoffman win is in the best interest of the country and that is where my support and donation shall lie.

    
    
14. 
    I Bleed Obama Blue
    on October 27th, 2009 at 9:43am
    
    
    

    *
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    “What’s unfortunate about it is that Hoffman isn’t the Republican nominee. NC, I know you don’t seem to think that a candidate chosen via the party leadership as part of the party plan is valid, but I disagree.
    .
    As I said in the other thread, this kind of internecine fight diverts attention from the real races that matter and gives the national media the kind of internal food fight between conservatives and moderates they love to report on.”
    *
    Oh, this is way more than an “internal food fight between conservatives and moderates”, Brian. The NY-23 race exposes the deep schism within right-wing of American politics. Should Owens win, the Republican Party will earn at least a temporary reprieve from history’s dustbin. Should Hoffman win, however, this race will mark the beginning of both the ascendance of the Conservative Party to third-party status and the Republican Party’s inexorable decline into obscurity.

    
    
15. 
    Cato the Elder
    on October 27th, 2009 at 10:44am
    
    
    

    El Oh El? The conservative party is a NY thing AFAIK. And if you’re going to cut n paste Nate you could at least give attribution.

    
    
16. 
    I Bleed Obama Blue
    on October 27th, 2009 at 11:01am
    
    
    

    *
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    “And if you’re going to cut n paste Nate you could at least give attribution.”
    *
    Why Cato, I didn’t think you cared.

    
    
17. 
    G. Stone
    on October 27th, 2009 at 11:11am
    
    
    

    “That’s unfortunate. I like Pawlenty – he’s probably my first choice for President in 2012.”

    Brian we are going to have to start using a crayon to spell this out for you. You are too smart to be taking the rather foolish and illogical position you have taken. If a Gov from Minn, a liberal state can smell the conservative coffee then might I suggest you have your political ear tuned.

    
    
18. 
    I Bleed Obama Blue
    on October 27th, 2009 at 11:21am
    
    
    

    *
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    “If a Gov from Minn, a liberal state, can smell the conservative coffee then might I suggest you have your political ear tuned.”
    *
    Your sense of smell is in your ear, Stone? That explains a lot…

    
    
19. 
    G. Stone
    on October 27th, 2009 at 2:07pm
    
    
    

    IBOB

    Just stay away from sharp objects for awhile, lest you bleed out the rest of your Obama Blue.
    Given the way Hopey Changey is going he won’t have enough Blue to make it to the mid term elections. This guy is bleeding political capitol like a hemophiliac with an aspirin habit.
    My prediction is you like edmundburkanator will soon be gone from the scene having been embarrassed into seclusion for having been card carrying members of the Hope and Change express.

    
    

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