Take a look at this graph below from the recent budget presentation showing the growing debt service payments required in the coming years. As Lee J said in a post below, Miller is already saying taxes will go up. So what the heck, let’s just saddle the taxpayers with anticipated madatory energy efficiency inspections of their homes! Get ready to get reamed, folks.
I am seriously considering getting out of here before it’s too late. We are on a path to have a Fairfax-like governmental/regulatory structure with a fraction of the commercial base. So who will pay for it? Residential home owners, like they always do in Loudoun County. Of course the new majority may get its way to impose a meals tax directly without having to get approval from us pesky citizens, as it is requesting authority from Richmond to do. But that will be a drop in the bucket in relation to what property owners will face.
And to top it all off, the Hatrick PR machine is in full swing, as evidenced by this regurgitated LCPS lobbying pitch courtesy of the LTM. Newly appointed LCPS Prototypical Poor Teacher Larry Rountree (he of many sorrowful letters to the editors) makes another public appearance in that sob piece. Just read the papers, Edgar and Larry, school systems all across the country are having to learn to do more with less. Get with the program, or get out of Dodge.
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Dec 18th by Loudoun Insider
Excellent post LI – one other disturbing trend is the fall-out of commercial real estate values. Commerical values were inflated for some time and are now coming down…as you point out, McG is talking energy plan (expanding gov.)in light of this budget outlook.
I’ve noticed Mr. Rountree. He’s insisted that he’s ready to pay more taxes.
I insist that the Board create a fund for people like him. We’ll see how much is in the fund at taxtime. I predict his mouth is a lot larger than his intent.
Thanks, Michael. Commercial real estate (as limited as it is here in Loudoun versus Fairfax) is indeed taking a dive as well, which will just put more pressure on residential to make up the difference.
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I think there should be a fund for all teachers and parents with kids in school to pay into for all the frills given away at LCPS – whiteboards, grade Deans, etc.. If they want gold-plated for their kids, let them pay for it. I am more than willing to pay for the basics, but we are way beyond that now.
This county is one big educational funding engine that is about to run out of gas.
One thing is certain – Hatrick will have no problem paying his property taxes at a potential $1.50 rate on his bloated salary.
LI, would you please drop the whiteboard paranoia, they are ALL bought and paid for. Nothing in the current budget is slated for whiteboards. Geez, get something new to harp on that helps solve this issue.
Does anyone know what the new county administrator is getting paid? Benefits? Car? etc.
BO they just ordered bought a whole bunch more of those white boards in the last week or two.
It was in one of our local papers. I can’t remember the figure but it was a serious amount of money.
Wow! Schools have always reamed us, but the general government share is rising fast. That must be because of Loudoun’s $252 million share of Dulles Rail boondoggle.
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School systems are cutting, for sure. LCPS and the local media have been publicizing cherrypicked statistics from the newly issued WABE report that would lead us to believe Loudoun teachers live below the poverty line, but one thing they won’t tell the public is that 8 out of 9 DC area school districts cut spending this year. There still needs to be about $100 million of fat cut from the LCPS budget and a good start would be to remove Hatrick from the payroll!
Every year, what most miss is the massive spending spree by Hatrick/LCPS to rid their books of the remainder of their budget. They do this to show how much more they need in the coming year. If they had funds left over, and readily identified as them having not used their allotment, they could not ask for more.
There are closets in schools jammed with unused TV’s, whiteboards, and other products that are the evidence of these spending sprees.
Don’t tell me they need more. It’s a conveinance born of ridding themselves of the money that’s left in order to propogate more.
For cryin’ out loud, BO, can you ever utter just one criticism of LCPS??? or would that get you booted from Hatrick’s and DuPree’s Christmas card lists?
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I could care less if there are no whiteboards in this year’s LCPS budget, but people who know tell me the budget is so opaque that we citizens couldn’t tell if they are in there or not. I absolutely will continue to bring them up because they are symptomatic of the excesses of Hatrick’s adminitsration that has gotten us into this budgetary mess.
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Want a concrete proposal to cut the budget? Well, it is also water under the bridge, but I would absolutely not have hired over 300 NEW teachers this year as hatrick did. I would have recognized the extremely tough budget limitations ahead and re-shuffled teachers and students as needed to make do with what they had already. But noooooo, Hatrick couldn’t make that kind of sacrifice. He’d much rather hire those people, then use them to get all of the teachers and parents fired up by threatening layoffs if his budget is cut beyond his liking.
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Class sizes need to rise in Loudoun County. Significantly. Period.
LI, the entire budget is opaque.
And Dean, now that we’re back to the meme of “closets in schools jammed with unused TV’s, whiteboards, and other products” first raise by you several threads ago, okay, where are the links? The line items or other evidence that prove purchase but not implementation, the photos?
You were silent as the dead when I asked about it before, and BlackOut asked too.
The whole “source that can’t be revealed because of the sensitivity of the issue” is fairly well bankrupt as we all grow knee-length beards waiting to be arrested by the FBI.
That is a serious charge, unless it is just spirit-of-the-occasion exaggeration.
Please prove it if you can, because it would be some concrete evidence of needing far more drastic measures than a simple percentage cut, particularly after the bs of the energy “strategy” on the county side.
A whiteboard or two in one of the 100-pupil schools with 70 kids in it, because the elctrical system can’t handle the installation without upgrades (and at what cost to be sensitive to the sense of place of the historic community it serves and so on), okay, I can buy that.
Boxes and boxes stuffed in closets is braod enough to require some proof.
Go for it.
Leej, the current purchase of whiteboards was to use a Federal grant for special education. Nothing to do with the County budget. No effect on the current tax rate. The grant effectively puts whiteboards in every class rooms, whiteboards are a moot point. Done, sealed, and delivered.
Dean, prove your claim of this secret stash of books, TVs, and whiteboards. Where is it?!? Pictures? Inventory totals? Are there other items being sequestrated in this secret warehouse? This s*it drives me crazy when we should be looking at the issue and how to realistically consider cost/benefit decisions.
It’s Government feeding government. It is common practice to blow off the remainder of the excess to be able to ask for more. Ever worked in a Government program or division at the executive level? I have.
I’d say you and Barbara need to prove that it’s not happening. I got my information from those inside the school system that have seen the afformentioned items.
Sorry Dean, it is neither my job nor BlackOuts to prove your unsubstantiated accusation.
“I got my information from those inside the school system that have seen the afformentioned items.”
Ah yes, the old “deep inside source who cannot provide documented proof or be named because of the sensitivity of the situation”.
Photos, Dean. That prove the closet(s) full of stuff are inside specific LCPS facilities.
With “boxes and boxes” of widescreen TVs and whiteboards.
Nice try.
Serious charges need evidence, like LI and Joe provided on McG’s conflict.
“I know a guy whose wife’s friend says that…” isn’t MY job to prove.
lol
Enough on the whiteboards (but as I said above, they are symptomatic of the Hatrick mentality). Just how are we going to close a $192 million dollar shortfall? Start hacking at Hatrick’s castle I say, and raise class sizes significantly. If that means those new hires he shouldn’t have made have to go, so be it. Times are tough.
LI the reason 300 new staff were hired last year is based on two FACTS. One, 2800 new students and the opening of a new elementary school. Second, attrition. teachers retiring, spouses transferred, etc. The pupil teacher ratio was raised last year which is why only 300 new staff were hired instead of 800 as has been the need in previous years.
And as for the whiteboards I know you be opposed to the funding on philosophical grounds but should LCPS turn the funds down? Then the funds are given to other school districts and LCPS gets nothing.
And monk quit with the “Urban legends” Barbara and BO are correct, put up or shut up!
BO II – Until someone explains why LCPS needs 150 full time employees per 1,000 students when there used to be only 125 per 1,000 not too long ago, then I will assume they are overstaffed and could absorb another 3,000 students without appropriating a single new position. If class sizes are now, say, 20 students, then adding 5% more students would only raise class sizes by 1 student. If staff is needed for a new school, then they need to cut positions somewhere else so there is no net increase. LCPS needs to do more with less, just like the rest of the world.
Of course I know the reasons they say they needed the new staff. But I hold firm in my belief that creative administration could have shuffled existing staff to meet those needs. But of course there is nothing creative in the Hatrick regime, other than finding creative new ways to overpay for land from connected pals!
You’re kidding right Dean? Are you really sticking with the secret treasure stash conspiracy? BTW, I checked and never found the stash. Sorry would have taken a picture but there was nothing to take a picture of.
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Honestly, the budget needs to be scrubbed and examined again. This is a tough situation and value cost analysis have to be made. Bitchin about over the damn costs like whiteboards and swirling, credibility crushing, rumors of hidden treasures, divert energy from the real mission.
Here we go again, obsessing on the trees and missing the forest.
Blackout and Munsey, stop worrying about whiteboards and closets. The school system spends too much money and is bankrupting us. Whatever they need to cut back on, and I’d start with elementary school guidance counselors, they need to cut back.
As the chart shows, our deficit spending is going up and up. The chart nicely shows the amount of deficit spending going down starting in 2016, but as I told the BOS myself in my comments I didn’t believe it for an instant. I never believe promises of future restraint. The future is now, cut now, reduce the deficit now.
I’m sorry Seeman, but Dean appears to be the one worried about supposed closets full of undeployed whiteboards, and my concern with his concern is that it distracts from real debate.
Don’t forget to point your laser at the whole budget, with open space tax deferrals for parcels too small to subdivide, a duplicate economic development office that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting businesses that come with their own set of tax shelters, and the staff to keep the duplicate structures running.
Besides Guidance Counselors for elementary kids, I want to know why we need “Parent-Student Liaisons” for each grade 6-12, each school. They are part time positions but quite frankly, if there is an issue between the parent and teacher isn’t that what the Dean per grade is for, or the Principal per grade?
Again let’s try a few FACTS. Tom, and LL, elementary guidance counselors are required by the state as part of the Standards of Quality. Even if you wanted to cut them they are required. You seem to pick and choose positions without ever finding out what the position does or if it is a mandated position by state or federal legislation. Please, do some homework before you post “Urban legends.”
I don’t think the graph includes any capital projects that have not been appropriated or are not in the current CIP, so it is misleading. There are lots of capital projects that have been deferred in the past few years just waiting for funding. I doubt there is any chance of a downward trend in the next 20 years.
Maybe the state should change their Standards of Inequality. I can tell you what the guidance counselors do in elementary schools, hold small group discussions on “Divorce and my Feelings” and “How to make friends with bullies” – my answer to the bully conundrum is punch them in the nose, but apparently the school system doesn’t agree.
School’s out! LCPS just cancelled classes for Monday and Tuesday to make it a 2 week vacation for most school employees. What makes them think the roads won’t be cleared by Monday or Tuesday after the snow is supposed to end this evening?
Just another teacher perk! Those poor poor people.
The graph is the whole story and the solution. We need to stop building new schools for a few years. The 3 new schools that are being built right now should be left empty for another year to save $25M in furniture and additional staff.
What do we do with the extra kids and crowded schools? Use the existing space more efficiently.
1) Add an extra half-period to the beginning and end of a Middle and High school day. This adds an additional 25% classroom space. The longer day does not mean kids have more instruction time. You simply spread the after school sctivities throughout the day using auditorium, gym and library space. Also saves transportation cost since you don’t need an activity bus.
2) Use the building on weekends and during the summer to educate more students in the classroom space of existing buildings. If you add two periods to a school day you can have children come to school only 3 days per week. A M-W-F shift and a T-T-S shift. This would save transportation costs and gives space for more children per school.
3) Overlap the kindergarten periods so that you use a classroom for 3 classes instead of 2 per day.
4) Increase the number of students per classroom using teacher aids to keep the student/adult ratio is line. Larger classsize requires fewer classrooms so it’s a double savings.
5) Close inefficient small elementary schools unless the community is willing to pay the cost differential.
6) Provide some classes as video and online instruction. For example: Family Life Education (sex ed for you old timers.) We don’t need the specialist teachers for these courses…Parents can answer the questions.
7) More activity fees. Parents want a premium school system and they should directly support it through user fees instead of taxes. Taxpayers owe a basic education to every child in the county paid through taxes. Parents should be able to optionally order premium educational service by paying for it. $1,000 per child per year for sports, music, field trips is reasonable. If parent’s won’t pay for lacrosse taxpayers shouldn’t either. (BTW I’d pay $25/year out of my pocket for a whiteboard in my child’s classroom. They are really worth it.)
I could go on but the examples above illustrate my point: infrastructure is where the budget can be balanced without eliminating popular services.
I agree with closing school Mon and Tues – it’s not the roads, it’s the bus stops. There is no where for kids to stand, and considering LCPS’s bus kids 3 blocks away from school – everyone rides the bus.
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Second – they are doing absolutely NO school work those 2 days. Believe me, I have one in elementary and one in middle school and they had nothing planned for any classes.
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Now, you might argue – kids don’t do anything in school anyways, and I’d partially agree. However – why waste the kids time OR the teacher’s time Mon and Tues, it was stupid to schedule school those days anyways.
Will Ed Myers accept the job of Superintendent when we toss out the current School Board and elect one with a mandate to start new at the Taj Mahal? A nice list of doable fixes to save money in these very tough times. I’m especially fond of #7 – I absolutely will pay for the basics, but not for the frills, especially when I have no spawn utilizing them.
Canceling school 2 days in advance is crap. Although there was a lot of accumulation, it was fluffy snow and there was no ice. The roads and the bus stop areas could be fine by Monday morning. They should have waited until Monday morning to make the call. If they want to give the teachers 2 extra days of vacation, then they should be furlough days. No worky, no money. Taxpayers pay too much money for public schools and should expect them to be open whenever possible.
A few other ideas for savings.
Add 4 students per class in middle and high School. Average will STILL be fairly small.
Eliminate the “deans” for each grade in middle school. A Principal and Asst. Principal is enough. Eliminate the fulltime “Bookkeeper” position.
Eliminate at least 20% of the rest of the non-teaching staff at all schools.
Even if all these positions were eliminated, no one would lose their job…we’re opening 3 more schools next year.
Cut the Broadlands Brick Palace staff by 25%
Maybe even turn one or two of the floors into a school. The remaining staff can get a little cosier.
The BoS should give Hatrick a budget that is $100,000,000 less than last year.
Sorry Fedup, I’ll agree on furloughs in general, but furloughing 2 days right before Xmas is crap for any county employee. Furloughs can be planned and implemented quite easily so that the employee can make the necessary plans and I fully support their use.
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I have to disagree on the “it’s just white fluffy stuff” too – you know it will melt and freeze. We got 22 inches of snow, not a dusting. I don’t want my kids standing on the bus stop because it is not safe. They never should have had school planned for these 2 days to begin with, but I think the safety of the kids was paramount in this decision.
This county is one big educational funding engine that is about to run out of gas.
Edmundburkenator
on December 18th, 2009
Well said. I would add that when you are in the RED 190 M you are already out of gas.
He’d much rather hire those people, then use them to get all of the teachers and parents fired up by threatening layoffs if his budget is cut beyond his liking.
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Class sizes need to rise in Loudoun County. Significantly. Period.
Bingo. New hires as well existing staff are political pawns to this guy. I find hard to believe that anyone with the common sense God gave them can argue for this schools systems budget in light of record deficits two years in a row. To top it all off it is going to get worse and both boards have their heads in the sand dealing with it. It is time for new leadership in Loudoun County.
I am very glad Loudoun County has a new County Administrator in Tim Hemstreet. A fresh set of eyes with no ingrained biases from being here for several decades is just what we need on the county government side. it is also exactly what we need on the county schools side. Hatrick has simply been here too long and is too used to getting his way. And of course he has a compliant School Board that lets him run them, then the other way around (as it should be). Time for a new School Board and a new Superintendent. Unfortunately it looks like we’ll have to wait until 2011 to get both. I simply do not see this School Board having the will to do what they should have done two years ago.
The problem with some here, in county Government and both boards is they operate from topic to topic, budget to budget, legislation to legislation as if these topics existed in a vacuum. They simply refuse ,are incapable or don’t care about about the bigger picture. Their want or natural inclination to allow local government to expand in its size, scope and costs are simply not compatible in what we can safely say is the most challenging economic environment in 35 years. Simply put, some on both boards don’t have the common sense, historical context or institutional memory to be leaders in these troubling times.They may be very smart people, however they don’t have the common sense to come in out of the rain.
Glad Hemstreet won the day. Also vying for his position back in the process is one of McGimsey’s biggest supporters and new partners. Can you imagine how that would have turned out if he’s gotten the job??
Just the thought of one of McG’s buddies in that position is enough to …..
Of course we still have the dangerous 5 on the BOS
G, your post is one in which I am in total agreement (except the rain part). This is a weakness of the system. I’m not sure politicians will think in the ways that you mention, because it’s not the way VOTERS vote. Staggering the terms may make this problem less acute, but it may always be with us.
I wanted to respond to one of Barbara M’s posts up above (not to be nasty, just have an honest debate)…
“Don’t forget to point your laser at the whole budget, with open space tax deferrals for parcels too small to subdivide, a duplicate economic development office that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting businesses that come with their own set of tax shelters, and the staff to keep the duplicate structures running”
I will give you the open space land use taxation on parcels that cannot be subdivided, in this budget environment, is probably something that needs to be examined. The minimum acreages were left over from the previous zoning regulations. That said, even if ALL of the parcels that fall into this category (sub-20 acre parcels in open space land use) were then put in residental tax rates for the whole acreage (not just the residence), the increased revenue to the county would be around 1 million to 1.5 million dollars. A good chunk of change, to be sure, but sadly given the shortfalls we have its not going to cover even .5% of the money we need to find.
Second, on the “duplicate economic development offices” There are no duplicate offices. There are 4 employees out of the 18 at the economic development office that work on rural economic development.
There IS an Economic Development Council as well as a Rural Economic Development Council, but these are unpaid volunteer councils made up of business owners, association members, residents, etc. And frankly, there need to be two councils to help advise the BOS and the county government on the issues unique to each. The business questions for a direct market cow/calf operation are completely different than those for a home builder or AOL. The county isn’t paying either council to exist so from a budget stand point it doesn’t mean much of anything.
Again, these are important issues to be debated, but just as I don’t have much contact with the inner workings of the school system and as such its hard for me to have an informed take on what is “waste,” I think it is likewise difficult for someone not involved with farms and other rural Loudoun businesses on a daily basis to claim we have “a duplicate economic development office” when that is not the case.
Hillsboro, thank you for a reasoned reply.
As to the open space on parcels too small to be divided, “only” 1-2M is better than nothing, particularly when the only reason we give a land use deferral for NOT using land is the reasoning that it “saves” us from development.
Not if it can’t be divided anyway.
I’m glad you’re willing to give that, because it was a pretty egregious loophole, and every little million helps!
Regardless of whether or not we also have advisory volunteers in additon to the staffers paid (and insured, and benefitted, some of whom also have rural businesses that receive advertisement through the county, and staff support, etc), their work receives tax funded support through staff time, etc.
A review of the businesses advertised through the county show that while a reasonably significant number are substantial, perhaps primary businesses, many are small enough to be classified as hobbies, and many are not even located in Loudoun, yet receive promotion through the county website and brochures.
The entire system needs and overhaul, IMO.
I certainly don’t pretend to be an authority on cow and calf operations.
I do, however, wonder why, with a $192M shortfall, we would be considering continuing to spend money to advertise and promote hobbies and tax shelters, which some of the operations receiving support seem to be.