You would think that after President Obama embraced the concept of tax cuts as a way to stimulate the economy in his “stimulus” bill, the rest of the Democratic party would have paid attention. But, unfortunately, they didn’t. From Washington to Richmond to Fairfax, Democrats only seem to know one thing – raising taxes.
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So it should have come as no surprise that the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors voted along party lines Tuesday to advertise a property tax rate of $1.12 per $100 of assessed value – 3 cents higher than the $1.09 figure proposed by Democrats last month. Fortunately, all three Fairfax Republicans on the board – Pat Herrity, John Cook and Michael Frey – voted against increasing the advertised rate.
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In addition, Democrats are also proposing a return to the “sticker tax” for all vehicles garaged in Fairfax, which had been abolished in 2006. Every vehicle registered in the county would be charged $33 under their plan. The Democrats expect that the new tax would raise $27 million – a whopping 10% of the expected $257 million shortfall expected this fiscal year. Not content with those taxes, they also plan to increase the storm water tax by 50%.
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Given the 7-3 Democratic majority on the Board, it seems fairly certain that these tax hikes are going to go through. The car tax increase is especially burdensome, as it strikes families who are already hurting the most. It is a bad idea to raise taxes in a recession, and given the size of the Fairfax County government, I find it hard to believe that there’s no better way of raising $27 million to keep from reintroducing this car tax.
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It’s unfortunate that we were unable to elect Pat Herrity Chairman last year a this time – I am confident had he been in office we would have found a way to close this budget gap without such a significant increase in property taxes and the reintroduction of the exceedingly unpopular decal tax. Here’s hoping that enough voters express their displeasure at the decal tax coming back to convince the Board to find a better way of closing the budget gap.
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Mar 11th by Brian S
Only three cents! Be glad you’re not in Loudoun where the increase is looking to be FIVE TIMES that.
Here is a interesting article from the WSJ about rising taxes around the country. The article mentioned how the Democrat incumbents are being thrown out of office for raising taxes. Our BOS should be scared very very scared if they want to get re-elected for raising taxes at a rate in the last 3 years as one of the highest rate increases in the country.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541304575099430857238738.html?mod=WSJ_Real+Estate_LeftTopNews
The property tax I can handle, mostly because I would rather have the services that I enjoy than give them up. I completely understand that someone else has another view, because like them, I’m willing to politically fight for mine.
But I agree with Brian that the car tax is misguided. It’s a cumbersome and non-progressive way of raising money — everyone pays $33 whether your car is worth $100 or $100K. It’s so bureaucractic it makes my teeth hurt.
Of course, I prefer taxes to fees (and this strikes me more as a fee in structure — those stupid stickers! — than a tax) but that’s another thing I’m likely to be on the opposite of most readers and posters of this blog, so I won’t go into that seeing that it’s already after 1A!
Brian, how much was your property tax last year vs how much it will be this year? My assessment went down quite a bit, as I’m sure yours did as well. I know you’re smart enough to know the difference between a real estate tax rate and total taxes paid and how, with declining property values, an increase in the rate doesn’t equate to a linear increase in the tax payment. Although that’s standard Republican speak, of course.
NJSM is the BO of FFX County, that’s his argument!
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Getting rid of the car sticker was a great move in 2006. It is a hated and irritating piece of sticky paper by all, county workers hate processing and distributing them, citizens hate paying and tracking them down in the mail and/or person and LEO’s were relieved when they went away. I’m not surprised the tone deaf democrats in FFX wanted to bring it back – irritating goes both ways.
With residential property values falling 6% – sending more houses into foreclosure and more mortgages underwater – homeowners should be getting a tax cut, but this is what Democrats do.
The tax rate argument is the biggest BS argument out there.
One of our Loudoun BOS Buckley tries to use that argument every year our BOS has raised taxes. She even votes against the tax raise, saying it should be higher. ha ha ha ha When our Democrats get voted out of office. They will be crawling back into their previous holes wondering what they did wrong, but believing they did everything right. Definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is our Loudoun BOS for you
Leej – That was a good WSJ article. Do you or anyone else happen to know the name of the online property tax service that person used to get his assessment reduced? We need to overwhelm the BOE with appeals!
its important to point out that the budget numbers the county is dealing with makes it virtually impossible to close the gap by SOLELY cutting the budget down, unless services vital to the security and welfare of the county are dangerously cut. Despite what some supervisors may say, there is a revenue problem, and it needs to be addressed. Even with the proposed tax rate, it would equate to the average home owner paying only $5 more on their taxes. now, im sure some will ignore everything i say except for the raise tax part and plaster me as a liberal, etc. but at the end of the day fairfax county offers a high quality of life that will inadvertantly be affected by just cutting hundreds of millions out of the budget. now, if the budget gap was less than $100 million, then yes, it could solely be temporarily cut down.
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The two biggest departments in the budget are 1) Schools, and 2) Police and Fire. Schools are already facing over $150 million in cuts, cutting additional funding is virtually impossible. Now while some may say cut out the Blackberrys, ok, congratulations you saved $5000. Of ocurse I am waiting for someone to argue that $5000 is a start, ok, find the rest of it to cut, because if you just cut the blackberrys its no more than a symbol that doesnt do anything in the end.
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With the fire and police, they, like the schools, have already faced massive cuts and cant really be cut more unless you propose putting the county at risk. the PD recently graduated an academy class, and they were laid off the next day. they also laid off an additional 60-70 officers.
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I believe the 3rd largest department is family services and they are the people that help those who have suffered under the current economy. there are a lot of state and federal mandates that cover family services and the county cant cut those programs even if they wanted too. additionally, considering their budget size, cutting any amount that would significantly decrease the current budget gap is impossible.
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the other departments have budgets that are so small that, like family services, cutting them to the extent that a difference is made in the overall gap is virtually impossible.
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Instead of fingerpointing and blaming parties for the problems, why dont we try to figure out what to do to fix the problem? If you have ideas, then please sign up to speak at the public hearings in the coming weeks and get your ideas heard by the entire board.
BT, go to loudoun.gov, and click on the link under “what’s new”.
There is detailed info on how to file an appeal online, or in hard copy, and what criteria to submit as far as comps to the BOE.
They are accepting online appeals through June 1, I believe.
(If you live in Loudoun, I mean)
Simple local gop. Increase major business in this county. oops we have no class A buildings to put them in so they go else where like faifax. The AOL buildings were the last major ones and went to Raytheon. Keep voting down mix use like Kincora and other major mix use until we solve the school and road problems we will never get those mixed use developments with buildings to put class A business into it. The the mixed use we have approved are developers that are in no hurry unlike Kincora. Our 3 metro developments all have problems the one at 28 and the toll rd is on hold and in litigation that could stop it forever and then there is the bridge location problem over the toll road there. The rt 606 metro location has the problem with moving the location a few 100 yards west which could cost US taxpayers NOT metro as much as 40 to 50 million dollars. A decision needs to be made soon as metro wants to get the design and engineering done right now. If our BOS does not act right now one way or another this will cost us tax payers in Loudoun a bundle. Of course the data centers at the moorefield have done a great job of visually trashing that one.
Major companies these days are not looking for campus style developments they are looking for live work play like mixed use or city centrals like reston and tysons and downtown DC. ANd we see them moving to those places not out here.
Barbara – a homeowner needs to present detailed comp info showing their assessment is too high. Where do you get that info? I’ll gladly pay a service $50 for it! The person in the WSJ got his tax bill reduced by over $1,000 for $50.
Good example although smaller then many of the proposed mix use in Loudoun.
Is the Village of Leesburg which is built and filling up fast and Leesburg got a beautiful bridge over rt 7 to boot. Build it they will come.
You can not take the County numbers as Gospel. Let me give you an example from advertised budget numbers used in LC just 3 months ago.
Staff said the LC deficit was 157 m. This figure was used in the Staff presentation to the BOS and the public. 4 days later the budget deficit was declared to be 192 m by the very same staff.
157 m plus 35 m = 192 m opps, a 35 m rounding error. Staff made a 22 % error.
These numbers are key in the determination of the new tax rate, budget cuts and spending. You can’t make these kind of errors when dealing with such an important issue. BTW this little error was virtually ignored by all involved. Again, Opps.
“Despite what some supervisors may say, there is a revenue problem, and it needs to be addressed.”
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There is no revenue problem. The problem is the county adjusted their spending levels to the great revenue boom of the housing bubble years, which was clearly unsustainable, and wants to keep it that way. Now that revenue has returned to normal, they are seeking big property tax increases instead of cutting spending. What needs to happen is a rollback of most of those big spending increases on a last in/first out basis.
G. Stone – It’s amazing that supervisors like Buckley are still using that $192M number. It was based on a lot of assumptions made at the end of last year, such as assessment values, which turned out to be higher than originally predicted, which would lower the “shortfall”, but sticking with the highest number makes a better case for a tax increase.
Hey, you guys are lucky. I live in Arlington where the all-Democrat Board voted up a 10.6 percent property tax increase, which will ride on top of my 7.2 percent assessment increase to increases my ad valorem contribution to the politcal class by more than 18 percent. I haven’t gotten a raise in years. God forbid that I should be allowed to keep money to support my family and educate my three kids when I can support the “services that [others] enjoy”, when I can provide “family services” for others, when I can fund benefit and retirement programs for county employees that are grossly out of line with what is available in the private sector, when I can set up teachers for peak incomes exceeding $100,000 for a 9 and one-half month job, when I can turn over money that is used for grants to fund pet political projects and programs as well as consulting contracts with political pals, when I can susidize $20,000 of personal property tax exemptions for unctious Prius drivers, when I can pay for the six police who hang out at the Goodwill lot every night from 2:00 am to 5:00 am, ensuring that at least three squads (and usually more) will show up within 5 minutes of a 911, when multiple school programs can be consolidated without materially affecting the quality of education, when redundant administrators and specialists galore can be eliminated from the school system…well I will stop there, but you get the point, I could go on. In all NOVA jurisdictions the local governments gorged themselves and the political class with what they thought was a stream of permanently increasing tax revenue over the last decade. Well, I got news for these folks — the bubble burst. It’s gone. The political class are paving the road to serfdom, they need to be stopped.
NJSM, my assessment went down about $50,000. The difference I’ll pay in taxes under the new rate is about the same as I was paying last year. Here’s the issue – my house is worth less now, so why should I still be paying the same amount of taxes I was when it was worth more? And that’s AFTER I’ve already spent over $15,000 in improvements since we moved in.
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I’m not a big fan of the property tax increase but I can live with it. The decal tax is a huge pain in the ass, and one of the best parts about moving into Fairfax from Arlington and Alexandria was never having to deal with that again. Now it’s back and it will barely raise enough money to be worth the hassle. That tax needs to be killed.
Brian, were you against the tax rate cuts in 2002-2007 when assessments were going up 20% a year? By your logic, you should have been paying more since your house was going up in value. Of course you weren’t. The property tax rates should float up and down – as they have been in Fairfax – to smooth out the fluctuations in home prices. Which is what I’ve seen from Fairfax.
As to the car stickers, they’re a pain in the ass and I would much rather see a better way to raise revenues. Add a surcharge to personal property taxes instead of a separate fee – and the pain in the ass of scraping off old stickers every year.
local gop-
You are so completely wrong about the school budget. There is huge amounts of fat on that budget and can EASILY be cut 10’s of millions more. And NONE of the solutions would result in a single teacher losing their job.
VA Cliff,
like I said, point them out please. dont just say they exist, name them.
NJSM, I didn’t live in Fairfax until 2006. And, no, I wasn’t against the tax rate cuts when the assessments were going up. If they hadn’t happened, individuals would have been faced with a significant tax increase. Even with the reductions, many people faced tax increases. And yet, during that time, instead of keeping the budget where it was and banking the windfall we received from the good economy and high property values, the Democrats on the board ratcheted up spending. Now, instead of cutting, they’d rather raise taxes to make up for their shortsightedness.
notjohnmosby-
My taxes will CONTINUE to escalate.
Last year, when the average tax bill supposedly wend down, mine went UP from $7282 to $7479.
At this year’s proposed rate, it will go up to $8043.
I think it was around $4000 when I bought the house 10 years ago.
Bellyaching,
What happened 4 years ago is over, stop complaining about it and fix it. name something that you would cut please. dont just say there are things that can be cut, name them. the problem that we face right now is not what happened 4 years ago, but what is happening now. complaining about gerry connolly and the increase in rates 4 years ago is useless at this point.
local gop-
I have, several times on this blog. But to name a few:
Increase class sizer 2-4 students.
Eliminate Middle School individual grade Deans and associated staff.
Eliminate “Bookkeeper” position in the schools.
Eliminate all the “liaason” positions.
Eliminate assistant athletic directors.
Eliminate 20% of additional non-teaching staff.
Increase walking distance to schools and STOP sending out buses to pick up kids that are already in walking zones!
Increase lifespan of facility infrastructure before replacing it. I’ve seen perfectly good flooring ripped up and removed because “it was in the budget”, not because it was needed.
How’s that for a start? I could go on and on……
Local GOP, Your proving your true colors once again, and displaying your lack of knowledge concerning your own county.
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You stated: “With the fire and police, they, like the schools, have already faced massive cuts and cant really be cut more unless you propose putting the county at risk. the PD recently graduated an academy class, and they were laid off the next day. they also laid off an additional 60-70 officers.”
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It was the Virginia State Police that laid off an academy class about 18 months ago, not FFX County PD. FFX Cty PD has been graduating classes the past 2 years at a slower pace as they are just keeping up with staffing levels via attrition. They currently have a class that is graduating within the next month and no additional classes have been slated. They do have a net loss of officers because of attrition but no personnel have been laid off. They had one furlough day in January 2009 and no steps paid last year. Overtime has been cut substantially and staffing is very low at the precincts. If anyone has room to bitch about underfunding over the past 30 odd years, it is the FFX County PD, but like most municipalities the School’s garner a lion’s share of the budget and the ear of the Board.
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I’m not arguing that the PD should be cut further, far from it, but if the schools want to continue to have SRO’s at every HS and MS they need to pay for it – this should not be a PD budget item. Further, if you think there are no more cuts that can be made to the FFX County School budget besides blackberries – I have a bridge to sell you in western Loudoun.
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Loudoun County is looking at cutting $170,000 from Fire and Rescue, and we have a majority volunteer force. It is insane to put the public at risk when the schools are going to continue to not only be fully funded – but they are asking for and getting an increase!
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You are commenting like the typical FFX County resident that claims they love their services and don’t mind paying more in taxes, while ignoring the unbelievable waste and overspending that has been going on for decades. We have the same people here in Loudoun and they are called democrats and PTA minions.
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Essentially you are saying, keep the status quo – we’ll spend out way out of the recession! It is fiscal insanity on all levels of govt.
local gop – You should visit Fairfax County Taxpayers Alliance at http://www.fcta.org for a good analysis of the budget.
Oh LL,
I was thinking of you when I made the statement that someone was bound to call me liberal…you are so predictable.
1) Your statement about the FFax PD shows your lack of knowledge on the topic. They graduated a class of officers a few days ago at the GMU Center for the Arts, and they were laid off the next day. Of course the County Exec. just proposed cutting an additional 60-70 officers from the streets too. But they are planning to bring back the new grads as resignations and open slots come up.
2) It is absolutely a police responsibility to police the schools too. Do you want the security f the 165,000 students to be bid out to the lowest bidder? the schools should be paying the police, absolutely, but it is still the police’s responsibility to make it happen. the police can bill the schools for example.
3) I dont benefit at all from the programs and services of the county, aside from police and fire which i have never had to call.
4) Please! The status quo argument is so over used. I am saying that right this second, there are no other options on the table aside from an icrease in revenue. if you have some magic wand to make the gaps go away, then please by all means use it!
BTP:
I read it. their argument is that the taxes are growing out of sync with inflation….of course they are. the county grew out of sync with inflation. a better argument could be made if taxes increased out of sync with county spending or more than the level of service than the county provided. but that is very general and subjective, also take a long time to produce that type of analysis.
also, if you look at the growth of population the necessity for more spending can be seen. the growth of school aged children and 65+ populations has been disproportionate. the DFS has had to increase services while dealing with the same amount of staff members they had 5-7 years ago. same with the schools, more children mean that you need more teachers and support staff. now I am not saying that cluster superintendents are completelyt necessary, but considering the cost of living in this county and the fact that the school system is the 12th largest in the nation, there is bound to be staff members with odd titles that dont seem to do anything. the school system does need to perform a top down staff review and cut out the unecessary positions and consolidate those that can be. but even if that was started today, it would take months to complete and that doesnt solve the budget crisis that must be solved in a matter of weeks.
Local, #1 That’s funny because rookies reported to stations last week and are being placed as we speak to fill upcoming slots. There is a delay in placement (which has happened previously) and the rookies will be called back probably before July when retirements ensue. Who is your source – web blogs? As for the County administrator, like Loudoun – he is the starting point for budget discussions – he can propose whatever he wants but that doesn’t mean it happens. It won’t either – there will be no “lay offs” at the PD as they will lose too many officers to retirement.
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#2 – Don’t be an idiot – I’m not arguing the county give you (God forbid) a gun and have you hang around schools as an SRO, I am talking about the FCPS paying for SRO’s not the police department. Any other entity that needs police protection in the county ponies up except the FCPS – it is indicative of the protection they receive in budget issues.
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I didn’t call you a liberal – I called you a democrat and/or a minion. I don’t care what you think of overused arguments as you are firmly in the camp that like taxes and enjoys arguing for them to continue to rise or throws up their hands and calls “uncle” with no valid arguments. The following stmt is not only naive but dangerous, as you believe in the system and your local officials – “I am saying that right this second, there are no other options on the table aside from an icrease in revenue.” Absolute hogwash, you are an embarrassment to fiscal conservatives and our party. I’d like to wave my magic wand and turn you over to the FCDC, that is your home.
Brian – According to the FCTA, between 2000 and 2007, the supervisors doubled the typical homeowner’s real estate tax from $2,407 to $4,846. If you bought in 2006, you missed one of the biggest fleecings of taxpayers in history.
NJSM points out the tax rate was going down from 2002 to 2007. That’s great, because it was the only thing that kept the average tax bill from reaching $7,000! Now the tax rate is going up and taxes are still going up. Is there a pattern developing here?
And voters in Fairfax were so angry about the so-called tax increases that they voted out Democrats in every election until there were only a five Democratic Delegates out of 17, zero Democratic State Senators out of nine, only three Democratic Supervisors out of 10, three Democratic school board members out of 12, and one Democratic Representative out of three. And Fairfax was the deciding factor in two Republican wins for Governor and a Republican pickup of a Senate seat.
Oh, wait a minute, it was the other way around. We’ve been electing Democrats all over the place and the Republicans are down to five Delegates, zero State Senators, three Supervisors, three school board members, clerk of the court, and one Congressional seat.
1) Thats what I said, once retirements and and resignations start happening they rookies will be called back, but none the less they are not being paid at the moment…
2) the PD already lost I believe 62 officers, before the County Admin recommended anything. they are expecting another 135 or so to retire/resign in the coming months, and then they will bring back the laid off rookies.
Call me a democrat, liberal, I really dont care. you have not proposed a single way for paying for the budget gap, not a one. all you do is scream about the school and thats it. you attack me because i choose to recognize that the county has only a few weeks to close a very large budget gap that isnt going to be fixed by firing a dozen employees and getting rid of 100 blackberrys. thats all you talk about, and frankly its a joke. you simply dont understand the complexities of running a county government with a multi billion $ deficit, instead of trying to learn the problems, all you do is complain about the schools, decry having to pay taxes, and blame the democrats for everything wrong with the county.
I dont like paying taxes, no one does. if you had it your way there would be no taxes, the county would privatize every service selling out to the cheapest bidder, and there would be a gun in everyone’s hand. i, unlike you apparently, recognize that Fairfax county is the 2nd wealthiest county in the nation, it is, in my opinion, the best county in the nation. the government bears an incredible responsilibity of balancing corporate interests, welfare interests, school interests, and public safety interests, not to mention the other dozen or so interests that come along. it takes $$ to do that and I am willing to pay an extra $100 to ensure that wo dont turn into some 2nd rate crap county like one in Southern Virginia, all for no reason aside from, i dont like taxes. guess what, its not about my personal gains. its about a community that must be governed and in order to be governed money must be spent.
Please, for once, point out specifics that would successfully close the gap in the hundreds of millions that doesnt lower the quality of life of the county. because people move to fairfax for a quality of life they dont get in say Prince William where it takes an average of 4 hours for a cop to respond to take a report. thats unacceptable.
you call me an embarassment, you stick your head in the ground, whine about taxes, and propose zero solutions. FOR ONCE, PLEASE MAKE A CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTION ON HOW TO CLOSE THE GAP. Because it is ILLEGAL for the county to have a gap. so since I know you’re all abou the rule of law, especially in the case of discrimination apparently, you wouldnt want the county committing a crime, now would you?
Start with the following Local:
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local gop-
I have, several times on this blog. But to name a few:
Increase class sizer 2-4 students.
Eliminate Middle School individual grade Deans and associated staff.
Eliminate “Bookkeeper” position in the schools.
Eliminate all the “liaason” positions.
Eliminate assistant athletic directors.
Eliminate 20% of additional non-teaching staff.
Increase walking distance to schools and STOP sending out buses to pick up kids that are already in walking zones!
Increase lifespan of facility infrastructure before replacing it. I’ve seen perfectly good flooring ripped up and removed because “it was in the budget”, not because it was needed.
How’s that for a start? I could go on and on……
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You screamed at Vacliff in the same manner – read it and weep.
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FFX PD will meet their obligations to the recently graduated cadets – period. When you graduate from the academy you are not guaranteed a job. It’s a harsh reality but everyone that enters the academy, particularly in a recession, should be aware of this. All of these fine men and women will be back on the payroll in short order, some are starting this week.
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In lieu of your rant – please visit the following site. I hear they will welcome you with open arms as they really hate conservatives too:
http://fairfaxdemocrats.org/
PS, Please use some paragraphing. Your rants make my eyes bleed as it all blends together.
local gop – Here’s great idea to close the budget gap from a Loudoun supervisor, as reported at loudountimes.com:
“Supervisor Stevens Miller (D-Dulles) said one way to help ease some of the pressure off the county for school funding could be to encourage citizens to contribute directly to the school system.”
You should pass the hat around at your next meeting!
Loudoun Lady you are absolutely on point regarding local gop, PTA minions and Democrats. Kudos
Bellyaching Taxpayer Hatrick responded to Millers statement as that is already being done through PTA’s such as getting play ground equipment etc. I don’t see that being a big cost savings.
Is this the same NJSM that swore – up and down – that Loudoun County did not have people from outside the state working at the polls in 2008? I find his insight a bit, well….lacking.
Leej-
Don’t forget…everytime the citizens and PTA’s raise money to add an amenity to the schools, it then becomes added to all future schools AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Why? Because it’s “unfair” that one school has something another one does not. Oh waaahhh. This is the type of juvenile thinking done by Hatrick and his Boards.
Cliff very interesting I did not know that. thanks
Cliff you do have a good handle on what needs to be cut from the schools.
So how come it goes on death ears which I actually saw and heard first hand a Millers budget meeting????
LL, I keep hearing about the outsiders coming from you and Monk. Don’t be disingenuous, there was also a large group of outsiders walking the neighborhoods for McDonnell. I talked to them. Both national party organizations threw resources into that race.
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Cliff I agree with you on your PTA post. It is germane to point out that students/parents pay a sport”s fee for playing on H.S. teams. $250 a year. So it’s not unheard of to have additional fees that folks without kids in school wouldn’t necessarily see.
BO, I was talking about the 2008 election, not last fall. I know there were Virginians from outside NOVA walking for McDonnell.
For those of you who don’t remember, Loudoun Looney posted repeatedly that the Democratic volunteers working in Loudoun were either payed “employees” from out of state who were bussed in and didn’t even know who was running and were just there for the moneyor young poorly-dressed law school students. That all of the lawyers from Protect the Vote were being paid full hourly fees and were just there for the money. That there was no way that all of the volunteers were actually volunteers, working for free, including all the lawyers. She also threw in some comments about “inner city” paid workers being bussed into Loudoun as well.
I called her on it, she fussed, she fumed, she acted like the old c*** of a Republican she is.
NJSM, I did no such thing, please find where I stated anything about poorly dressed people and that the Obama workers were there for the money. I don’t even know who protect the vote is – a front org for ACORN? I’m sure they aren’t around anymore.
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I know some poll workers were paid because they TOLD ME they were, and I have no doubt they were true believers. Believe me, every democrat poll worker I met on election day 2008 had that Obama glow about them. I wonder if they are still glowing? Sounds like you are.
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The point is, you wouldn’t know a truth if it walked up and smacked you in the face.
I missed the C word NJSM, hey anyone have the courtesty to remove that?
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Inner city workers? You are delusional man.
Ll
you and I don’t disagree in principle. I said that things should be cut earlier. But you chose to ignore that and only focus on things we disagree on. He question is when does cutting the budget stop and raising taxes begin. I said that we have cu so much already that it would be detrimental to cut further. Your proposed cuts are valid but it takes time to do that. It tales time to figure out who to few and who not to. But we have to find an immediate solution. At this point there isn’t anything else being proposed aside from tax raises.
Funny answer there LL. The outsiders walking for McDonnell were from outside of the State not from “outside of NOVA”. I talked to good folks from New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
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Besides that the 08 election had everyone coming into town from all over the country.
Also, what’s wrong with calling you “cute”
I just know that McDonnell had the resources to get outside help. I didn’t hear of NJ and PA people and I was in the Victory office almost everyday in the last week. I won’t get in a pissing match over it though.
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In 2008 Obama had the resources to get quite a bit of help from outside the state, mostly from democratic strong hold states – but for some reason NJSM refuses to admit this. It was bizarre that he took such offense to this claim and that has held out so long. Plus he has a potty mouth, what a poopyhead!
LL, if the local victory office didn’t know of these outsiders, it shows how much control the office had over events. Credit goes to a lot of different efforts.
Get Brian or whoever is running this blog these days to fix the archives function and I’ll be happy to pull up the thread where the volunteers were discussed. It would have been started just after Election Day.
“I was thinking of you when I made the statement that someone was bound to call me liberal…you are so predictable.”
That’s because you’re so predictably “liberal”.
I walked point on Election Day….and traversed the County. I recognised only two people from the local Dems in the entirity of the whole day. What a stark difference in 2009. I only saw a handful of Dems that I recognised at the pols….mostly because the ones that were out there had given up by lunchtime.
I’ve been active in Dem politics for nearly 20 years. My parents were active before me. My grandparents were active before them. My great-grandfather was active before that. And I can’t tell you how many cousins, uncles, aunts, etc I have who also work for their local Dem candidates and party. Being a strong Democrat is a family failing, sort of like being devoutly religious. Politics and religion are about the only thing my family AGREES on.
But for the record, not one of us has ever met or worked with someone from ACORN. Not one of us has ever been paid.
And yeah, in terms of results, I knew even before election day in 2009 that we were going to lose, but I still did what I had to do. After all, I had to live with myself the next morning, no matter what the result.
NJSM, I looked in the archives and it is not there, but if the comments are pulled up they will prove I said absolutely nothing you claimed. You pulled out the most stereo typical liberal tripe in your claims, it’s right up there with “Republicans want old people to eat dog food” – and it shows you are nothing but a hack.
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Gretchen, Not sure why you family is history is relevant but I come from a LONG line of Democrats. The party left them years ago and they linger due their roots in the unions, but my generation has broken free! And yes, I too felt the difference between 2008 and working at the polls despite knowing the results and working in 2009 leading to a victory.
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BO, I didn’t say the Victory office didn’t know anything, merely that I was there and heard nothing. Again, people from outside LC were canvassing but I didn’t have the authority to ID them. Comparing 2008 and 2009 is like apples and oranges as far as outside help, which is what gets NJSM so bleepin crazy. He can’t handle the truth.
The issue is so complex that it has become almost impossible for the average citizen to contribute intelligently to the conversation. These g-d ad valorem taxes are the bane of our existence. The unrealized property values fluctuate, sometimes radically, the assessments may or may not accurately reflect those fluctuations – at best there is a lag, there are very real budgetary demands on the local governments that mean that schools and public safety aren’t readily managed simply by taking 20% scalpels to them, and we have a political climate in which otherwise discerning people run around yelling about No New Taxes. Yikes.
Get rid of the property tax. Get rid of the car tax. Tax only income. Stop hiding behind these vexatious fees for everything under the sun. Elect people with a sharp eye for management of large, complex organizations. Be ready to take your lumps in November if you get it way wrong. Voters give the officials some slack if they get it mostly right.
” Get rid of the property tax. Get rid of the car tax. Tax only income.”
You wanna be fair, tax consumption.
“You wanna be fair, tax consumption”
Does this mean that you would support a meals tax similar to Fairfax City at 5%?
Consumption taxes may have a place, but they become supremely market distorting if they are the only public revenue source.
The LCRC came out strongly against the meals tax proposed in Loudoun in 2008 and it was defeated, because it was the correct, fiscally sane course of action.
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Local, are you for meals taxes in Fairfax City, Herndon, or in general?
LL,
meal tax has pluses and minuses. plus being obviously the revenue that could be dumped into transportation. but the only realistic way to get that approved would be through attaining a city charter and we both know that wont happen. plus if it did happen, fairfax county would have to take over their transportation infrastructure and the county doesnt have the resources and the revenues generated by the meals tax would be no where near enough to cover the amount necessary to take over transportation here.
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i know you are going to say, its a tax and taxes are bad. but does th tax stop people from eating in Fairfax City? Alexandria? Richmond? Herndon? No, half the time, people dont even notice it. passing a meal tax wouldn’t mean less people eating out, but a meal tax wont happen because voters must approve it through a ballot and no voter is going to vote to raise their own taxes. not even me.
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basically, the whole point of a meals tax is to help localities that have to fund their own transportation. but fairfax isnt in that boat yet, so its not really necessary right now. but, if i knew that me paying 5% of a $20 dollar tab once every 2 weeks would mean that 75% of the transportation problems went away, then yes I would be more than happy because my quality of life would improve and so would my commute time. and it is worth it in the end.
“You wanna be fair, tax consumption”
Does this mean that you would support a meals tax similar to Fairfax City at 5%?
local gop
on March 14th, 2010
No not on top of property and income taxes.
Consumption taxes may have a place, but they become supremely market distorting if they are the only public revenue source.
NoVA Scout
on March 14th, 2010
What city , county or state can you cite that operates of 100% of taxes derived from Consumption.
I was reacting to your statement GS. I know of no place at any level that relies entirely on consumption taxes. None. Which is my point. The reason one cannot substitute consumption taxes for income taxes except at the margins is because of the former’s distortive impact on markets. My original point had been that instead of largely useless belly-aching around the complicated edges of local tax rates, the correct position is to go on a full-throated war path against ad valorem taxation of property, particularly residences. However, to do that, one has to be prepared to discuss both tax rates and revenue distribution for a re-tooled income tax. Consumption taxes can work to supplement public revenues, but they are fraught with issues as to what is taxed and with mechanisms necessary to control regressivism. They are almost as big a mess as ad valorem tax on possessions, but not as complicated and expensive to collect.
NoVA Scout – Democrats hate the ad valorem taxes because everyone pays the same rate. It’s just not fair that the owner of a $200k condo pays the same rate as the owner of a $2 million mansion, even though the later pays 10 times more. They prefer progressive taxes, such as the income tax, where they can really stick it to the “rich”, while providing tax relief to the majority of their constituency. When you hear “based on your ability to pay” from a Democrat, BOHICA!
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The way to fix the abuse of the real property tax is to cap the yearly increases to no more than say 5%. Had such a cap been in place during the housing boom, spending would not have soared to unsustainable levels and there would be no “crisis” this year.
The way to fix the abuse of the real property tax is to cap the yearly increases to no more than say 5%. Had such a cap been in place during the housing boom, spending would not have soared to unsustainable levels and there would be no “crisis” this year.
Bellyaching Taxpayer
on March 16th, 2010
Correct. And had the BOS seen the writing on the wall or listened to the many who warned them they could have started the correction process with more aggressive spending cuts in FY 2010. Instead they used stimulus $ as a means to kick the can into Fy2011 and beyond. They passed on a real opportunity to begin an incremental plan pushing spending downward in line with revenue.