I’ve gotten a lot of emails from a variety of sources, including both campaigns for the 11th Congressional district seat about protests against Obamacare tomorrow, beginning at 8 AM at the Patriot Center at George Mason University, 4440 University Drive in Fairfax. The President is scheduled to speak there tomorrow in the hopes that his continued campaigning can convince the last twenty or so wavering Democrats to sacrifice their political careers to save his presidency.
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In other news, our “undecided” Congressman Gerry Connolly, voted today to allow Nancy Pelosi to use the deem and pass procedural move, AKA the “Slaughter Solution,” in passing the health insurance reform bill.
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Regardless of where one stands on this issue, it seems pretty clear to me that if you can’t get the bill passed on an up or down vote on the underlying bill (which no one has read yet, still) perhaps you shouldn’t be trying to pass the bill. Given the wailing and gnashing of teeth from Democrats after the Republican leadership held the vote open for an extra two hours to pass Medicare Part D, it’s hilarious to watch them scrambling to come up with procedural tricks to try and pass this bill without taking the inevitable political hits.
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Mar 18th by Brian S
I tend to think that Connolly will vote yes on this thing. Maybe he sees the deals others are getting and is holding out to line his own pockets somehow. He may need a new form of income come January.
Facebook event page
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Why exactly are we calling this the “Slaughter Solution”? Why not the Hastert solution or the Gingrich solution? The Republican controlled Congresses over which those two presided as Speaker used the very same “procedural trick” as you call it well over one hundred times. Do you believe that they were wrong to do it? Are the many laws they passed using that procedure unconstitutional? (Cue Cuccinelli).
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It seems to me that both parties are equally hypocritical in this regard. When they are in the majority they both take the exact opposite position on the filibuster and other rules than they took when in the minority and vice versa. They are both equally full of crap in that regard. The Republicans faux outrage over this is hardly unique. It is just the most recent example. But it is certainly hard to take them seriously. I don’t know how they can spout this horse manure and keep a straight face. Ditto for the Democrats when the shoe is on the other foot.
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If it is a bad bill then make the case against it. Or better yet take your responsibility as legislators seriously and work to craft a better bill. But it is a bit late for that. The Republicans long ago made a decision to abdicate that responsibility in favor of taking a totally obstructionist road because they calculated it might win them more seats in November. Now they have to live with that strategy. The voters will pass judgement in November. Then we will see the result.
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I understand the Republicans are terrified of this bill passing. Their political strategy sort of counted on being able to successfully block any bill. Passage hurts them politically. But the whining about procedure really is a bit much.
Dan, you sound like when of my kids when she is being a real brat trying to get away with something. You know, “If so and so can do it, why can’t I?” And you’re just about as persuasive.
Actually, the Republicans did not do the “same thing” as the Democrats are attempting to do. The “procedure” was done more with amendments to bills, and certainly nothing on the scale of this multi-trillion socialized medicine Obamanation.
My guess is that Obama will manage to fill the hall with astroturf union hacks like Dan, anyway.
Dan, we have made the case against it. And we’ve managed to convince a majority of America that this bill is bad.
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That, however, has not stopped the Democrats in Congress or the President from telling us that a majority of Americans don’t know what’s good for them, are being mislead by Fox News, or otherwise are too dumb to decide this issue for themselves.
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We have done everything we could to block this bill because it’s a bill that deserves to be blocked. And, regardless of whether it passes or fails, Republicans will make major gains in November. The question isn’t if, but but how large those gains will be.
Brian,
If the 20 Democrats vote against it, does that mean that independents will embrace them and Republicans won’t run candidates against them this year?
Or does it mean that you’ll still call them socialists/marxists/communists and smear them just the same as if they vote yes?
NJSM, if they vote against it, they may be able to survive in November. But, no, that doesn’t mean Republicans won’t run against them. Just like when Senate Republicans kept Bill Clinton in office during impeachment and the Democrats still ran candidates against them.
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Like I said, regardless of how this vote goes, dozens of Democrats are going to be retired in November. The only question is how many.
“If the 20 Democrats vote against it, does that mean that independents will embrace them and Republicans won’t run candidates against them this year?”
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Why yes. Yes, it does. Swear to God.
Brian, it is debatable whether or not Republicans have convinced the American people. When it is presented as a big scary Obama Care, as you all like to call it, polls would indicate they are split right down the middle on it. When asked about the individual provisions in the bill the polls indicate a majority favor them. So, as I say, it is a debatable point.
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What is absolutely certain is that the Democrats will do much better in this November’s elections if they pass the bill. If they should fail to pass it then I might agree with Charlie Cook. You guys might actually have a shot at taking the House back.
Ron, actually it is you who sounds like a partisan hack. I acknowledged the obvious fact that BOTH political parties sing a different tune depending on whether they are in the majority or the minority. That they are BOTH highly hypocritical in this regard.
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You on the other hand seem to be unable to take your partisan blinders off and admit that obvious point. You define being a political hack.
Dan, I just love how you cherry pick polling data. Old Joe (Goebbels, not Kennedy) would be proud.
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Seriously, don’t you get tired of defending this POS proposal?
Cato, not cherry picking at all. There are plenty of polls that show a pretty even split on this thing. Unless you fall into the trap of believing your own bullshit there is no clear evidence that a majority of Americans oppose this bill. The data show about an even split. Republican talking points don’t alter that.
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And when you ask about things in the bill like the prohibition on denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions or prohibiting annual or lifetime caps there is majority support for those things that are in the bill.
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And the politics is pretty clear. The electoral disaster for the Democrats would come from not passing it. The smart politics is to pass the bill. That spoils the rather cynical strategy the Republicans mapped out a year ago on this thing.
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The bill is not what I would have written. I doubt anyone could say that. But when those 59,000 nuns came out for it I knew it was a done deal. You don’t mess with the penguins!
“And when you ask about things in the bill like the prohibition on denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions or prohibiting annual or lifetime caps there is majority support for those things that are in the bill.”
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Yeah, but those things would easily pass in a stand-alone. Nobody’s making an argument against protecting people who are legitimately chronically with no ability to pay. I’m curious as to how you feel about all the transfer payments to the for-profit drug and health insurers.
You said it right Dan, “The smart politics is to pass this bill”. Shouldn’t it be “the smart thing for the American people is to pass this bill”.
“What is absolutely certain is that the Democrats will do much better in this November’s elections if they pass the bill.”
You finally fell over the bike’s handlebars on this one. Are you really stupid enough to think that Americans are going to embrace democrats if this thing passes? What you haven’t seen yet is the other shoe drop because it hasn’t passed. If it does somehow get gerry-rigged and passes, you’ll be surprised at the whole new wave of folks who will turn on Democrats and become active. The Republican Party is picking up folks from all walks of life who were once complacent, but thanks to Obama, have become agitated and joined up. He’s literally the best thing to happen to Republicans since 1994.
60% of Americans don’t want this thing, and a mere 23% think it’s just fine.
Those numbers grow significantly they are exposed to exactly what’s in the bill. No wonder the dems refuse to put the substance out there. No wonder they strive to pass it without reading it, and no wonder they are trying to pass it without offering up any of the language for perusal by the very folks that will live under it, should it pass. The whole damned process has been dodgy, secretive and underhanded. Dems ought to be ashamed of themselves….but they ain’t that smart.
pgreer, I think it is both. Just because I was speaking about the politics doesn’t mean I don’t also think it is the right thing to do for the country. It ain’t the bill I would have wanted, but is is far better than the completely unsustainable status quo.
Cato, there is a whole lot I don’t like about the bill. But the choice is between this and the status quo which is far worse than anything in this bill. The status quo will sink the country. And if you are honest you will admit that the Republicans share a good deal of the blame that these are the only two choices we have today. They never dealt in good faith on this thing. They did a very good imitation of Lucy pulling up the football on Charlie Brown over and over again. But it became crystal clear that their goal was always to do their utmost to see that nothing passed. Jim DeMint was the only one honest enough to say it out loud and unequivocally. If the Democrats had taken him at his word and not allowed themselves to be played by the Republicans for the better part of the year we might have a better bill right now.
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As it is I believe the Republicans are shocked that a bill is going to pass. And I hope they are painted in the Fall as the defenders of a miserable status quo because that is what they are. They put party way ahead of country.
Yes, we are shocked when our elected representatives refuse to represent us and ignore the wishes of those who hire them to represent them and to vote accordingly.
Here is a list of polls on Obama’s health care plan, please show us where the majority of people support it. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
The majority of Americans object to this stinky bill, yet our ”leaders” are going to ram it down our throats anyway. They do not care about what the voters want! Their arrogance is astounding.
The good news? Connelly is giving Pat Herrity a very nice gift with his vote for Obama’s health care. Virginia will pick up FOUR republican seats in November and Pelosi will no longer be the speaker because republicans will be back in charge.
[...] Activists gearing up for protest against Obama tomorrow at GMU [...]
Lovettsville Lady, without further rehashing of polls and what they do or do not indicate about public opinion, I would simply like to ask one question. Do those of us who voted in large numbers in both 2006 and 2008 to elect representatives to put policies in place that we agree with (although you may not) have no right to have our voices heard?
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It seems to me that two consecutive wave elections might be a more definitive indicator of the voice of the people than the parsing of various polls or the volume with which the minority expresses itself.
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If you are correct then your guys will be gloriously swept into office this November. At that point those who voted for your guys should indeed have their voices heard and reflected in the public policy that is enacted. In the meantime I’d like to have the voices of a strong majority, as expressed in two election cycles, to be heard and acted upon.
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You say:
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“The majority of Americans object to this stinky bill, yet our ”leaders” are going to ram it down our throats anyway. They do not care about what the voters want! Their arrogance is astounding.”
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Do you seriously believe this?
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First, a leader is indeed willing to cast a vote that may cost him politically if he believes it is what is right for the nation. Do you truly want representatives that bend with every poll and have no principles? Those are the types who you should direct your sarcasm toward. They are certainly not leaders. And ramming it down our throats? Or “rushing” to pass the bill as the minority leader calls it? It’s been more than a year that this particular piece of legislation has been making its way through Congress. If that is rushing I’d hate to see what slow walking it would look like.
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But then we all know those comments are just talking points from Republican “leaders” who never had any intention of supporting any bill whether they thought it was good, bad or indifferent. Theirs was a purely political calculation.
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This bill looks like it is going to pass. The voters will make their judgement in November. Republicans will pick up seats as the opposition historically does during midterms. I wouldn’t bet too heavily on Boehner being Speaker anytime soon though.
Dean, I don’t know if it can be assumed that the Republican PARTY will pick up those angry with Democrats voting their party line.
I think the Tea Party cause will swell, and if the only choice is a Republican against an incumbent Democrat who voted yes against the wishes of their constituency, then we’ll see candidates in the R column make pickups.
I truly believe that for a large number of people it isn’t a party thing at all.
Actually, dear Dan, I did not deny that both parties did this. I just pointed out historical facts (which you cannot refute) about the difference in scale. Maybe we can agree that Congress should ban Demon Pass? Well, after the Republican majority next year does a “Deem and Repeal” of this monstrosity. LOL
As far as the “wave” elections are concerned, neither the Democrats nor President Obama ran on the theme of massively exploding the deficits not nationalizing health care. Losses in the upcoming mid-terms may be normal, but the accompanying anger and disillusionment over the “bat and switch” (not to mention the ethics problems of the current Congressional majority) that the public has seen may well turn Nancy Pelosi (or Steny Hoyer, if the Democrats opt for adult supervision) the new Minority Leader come January. I guess we will all have to wait and see on that one.
Have fun with your SEIU buddies at the Obama-fest today.
Dan
You don’t like the bill but it is better than the status quo. I don’t think the Republican members have said they want the status quo either, but they don’t want to bet the farm on this socialistic take over of 1/6th of the economy, potentially destroy good health care, and complete the bankruptcy of our country. The Republicans have offered to do some things that correct ares where there is public agreement that something needs to be done. The Dems refuse to participate. It is there arrogance and will be there downfall for a substantial period of time by proceeding with a “we have to pass the bill so we can see what’s in it?” It’s a BAD bill and should be stopped in its tracks. Hopefully the 20 dems currently holding out will remain strong.
Also, as a continuation from above because I don’t know how to put in more than shows on the one comment area. The comment area does not scroll when you get to the bottom. Any help?
Anyway I’ll bet there are a few Dem Senators who are afraid the House will pass this thing and they won’t get another vote on it. They voted for the original to stay in grace of leadership thinking it will be back and can be modified or they would vote NO on return trip. The old I voted for before I voted against it. Now if the house passes, they are stuck with what they’ve done.
Dan the defender wrote; “But the choice is between this and the status quo which is far worse than anything in this bill. The status quo will sink the country” – absolute BS. See Cato’s remarks on stand alone bills. It’s sad that there wasn’t an attempt by any democrat, leadership or otherwise, to put forth stand alone bills (pre-existing, crossing state lines, etc). They’d be heralded as a hero, but given the current crop of Gerry Connelly ass-kissers in Congress, there was no hope from the start.
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Bart Stupak and his “dirty dozen” have folded like cheap lawn chairs, and if they are up for re-election, they have a good chance of going down.
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I think Dan is living in an alternate universe, honestly, he is betting the republicans will be painted as obstructionists, the people will embrace this horsehit bill and debt and democrats will win in November. Was it opposite day yesterday?
We are in a situation in which the status quo will sink the country, but ObamaCare will sink it faster.
John, I use the down arrow as a scroll mechanism in the field (and up arrow to review). There may be a better way, but it’s how I’ve gotten used to dealing with it.
I’m already on the record as saying that the November elections are likely to be a bloodbath for Democrats. But I don’t think that’s going to change whether we pass the bill or not, so I would much rather pass the bill. It might, and I stress MIGHT, be enough to help motivate Dems in some swing districts to help keep a seat or two we might have lost otherwise.
It’s not unlike what happened here in VA last fall — Democrats as a party were burned out and tired and Republicans were motivated. The Republicans had a more concise (concise does not always mean accurate) message. I had said from the fall of 2008 that we were likely to lose, no matter what.
However, if the candidate (any candidate) had taken a more aggressive stand on core Democratic issues and run a positive campaign, we might have squeaked out a victory. Again, probably not, but it certainly wouldn’t have been the shellacking we took by running away from Obama.
We might lose the House. We might. We might also come close to losing the Senate. But does any of that change today if we suddenly put this bill aside? Probably not, except that people like me are very angry at my own party. (grin) You all are ALREADY very angry at us, and that isn’t going to change!
Gretchen, winning can be infectious. This applies not only to energizing a base for elections. It applies to passing other legislation during this Congress.
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The Republicans have made it pretty plain that it wasn’t just about health care. Their intention was to block anything that Obama tried to do in order to, as Senator DeMint so eloquently put it, “break him”. If the president had scurried off with his tail between his legs on this one it would have proven mighty tough to get much of anything done going forward. The right move legislatively and politically was to fight this one through to victory. Under the circumstances he really had no other choice.
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You are right that there are going to be Democratic losses in November either way. But passing the bill will likely ameliorate the damage. Failing to pass it will make the damage more severe.
The good news? Connelly is giving Pat Herrity a very nice gift with his vote for Obama’s health care. Virginia will pick up FOUR republican seats in November and Pelosi will no longer be the speaker because republicans will be back in charge.
Lovettsville Lady
on March 18th, 2010
This and $4.67 will get us a cup of Coffee at Starbucks. The damage done by this legislation will far out weight and certainly out last any political gain. Once it is passed it is here forever.
Some of my Pennsylvania family is in Democrat Jason Altmire’s district — the congressman who was recently highlighted in a WashPost article on “undecideds.” He says that his constituents are breaking 50/50 on calls, and if I had to guess, I’m guessing he’ll vote against it.
But his Republican challenger is already running against him by saying that because he “waffled” on health care, he can’t be trusted. Even though he is doing the very things that Republicans want, he’ll still likely pay a price. I will not be surprised if he loses this fall.
Now, Republicans have every right (and even every obligation to their own party) to run as hard as they can to win. You won’t often hear me complain about hardball politics. But this is a good example of why Democrats think we have nothing to lose and a lot to gain, not only politically in the short term, but in creating the world we hope to live in.
“the world we hope to live in”
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Which is to say a command-and-control bureaucratic corporatist state. The unintended consequence of empowering the apparatchiks to determine what is or is not a “qualifying” health plan, administer student loans, run auto companies, enforce emission targets, etc. etc. is that eventually a crowd with whom you disagree will take a turn at the controls of the leviathan.
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I wonder what a “qualifying” plan would look like under a Sarah Palin administration?
“command-and-control bureaucratic corporatist state”
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(laughing) Yes, this is EXACTLY what we talk about and the very words we use at the dinner table, as we figure out ways to take over the world a la Pinky and the Brain!! Then we break into a few Soviet-style songs and before my son can go to bed, we quiz him on his daily reading of Marx.
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(Kidding. I’m assuming I don’t have to say this, but just in case…)
This is kind of like when Biden says the feds are going to take over the insurance companies, or the President says the transition of 1/6 of the economy won’t be overnight……I’m sure they talk that way and MORE at the dinner table because they know what they are doing. Feed it to us slowly, so that we don’t notice.
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You won’t have to feed your son his daily dose of Marx anymore, he is watching it unfold. The “world we hope to live it” is really (as G. Stone correctly stated) – the THIRD way. It’s very simple, Obama and his administration have all the answers and if they take over everything – it will be done the RIGHT way this time, by the government. We don’t need silly private industry running banks and car companies, or healthcare. Seriously folks – don’t worry, sit back, relax, it will all be good. Drink the coooolaid.
Considering that aside from sending my child to public school every single aspect of my and my family’s life is spent in the private sector. So I’m not going to hit the panic button yet, and I haven’t drunk any koolaid in probably twenty years!
Those who voted in large numbers in both 2006 and 2008 to elect representatives to put policies in place that they agreed with were shocked into reality when Obama went the other way……
And they’re jumping off of the sinking ship on hordes. If you hadn’t noticed, they’ve joined ranks with the Republican ranks and elected two Governors and United States Senator, all with a healthy majority and plenty of room to spare. Or did YOU miss that?
Bob McDonell’s ticket blew by the dems with 61% of the vote here in Loudoun.
That weren’t all Republicans, pal.
Obama is going out to campaign for Boxer…..and absolutely giddy that he is….given the automatic response in the ballot box after his last three endorsements.
By the time you hit the panic button, it will all be over. Don’t wait.
Gretchen, you were wise to point out that you were kidding. It some quarters that is necessary.
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I’m sure that to some the picture of your family singing the Internationale was perfectly plausible. They have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that anyone who even glances in the direction of the political center rather than keeping eyes right is a Communist.
The problem is Dan, it’s unnecessary to point out whether it’s fact or fiction. It’s happening before our eyes – history in the making. Tee-hee, funny, funny, hahahaha – not.