Well, not exactly an island. Just Blue Virginia, the self-proclaimed second largest Democratic blog in Virginia. As Cato noted before (calling it my “Marxist outreach effort”), I’ve been actively visiting both Blue Virginia and Not Larry Sabato for a few months now in an attempt to provide a Republican viewpoint to the Democratic blogosphere. While Too Conservative is one of the largest Republican blogs in Virginia (along with Bearing Drift) I have always believed that you can’t just publish material designed to appeal to your set audience, you also need to go out and engage in debate with others, especially on the other side of the aisle. I routinely check many of the top blogs in Virginia daily as part of my morning news sweep, including a variety of the blogs of frequent commenters here like Bulletproof Monk, Lovettsville Lady and others.
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Well, after multiple posts regarding an NPR story that both Lowell and Ben at NLS picked up regarding Massey Energy’s Tazewell mine in Virginia, I found my login to Blue Virginia was no longer working. So I sent an email to Lowell Feld, the owner of Blue Virginia and received the following response:
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“Brian: FYI, the executive board of Blue Virginia voted earlier today to ban (not delete) your account. The general consensus is that this is taking up way too much of our time, that your intent is clearly not to engage in serious debate, that much of what you say falls into the “whitewashing” category, that you’re posting way WAY too many comments, etc., etc. – Lowell”
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Now, I’ve been writing over here at Too Conservative for almost a year now and I think most of our readers recognize that I’m not a bomb thrower. I’ve had good conversations on a variety of issues with many Democratic legislators, including Scott Surovell, Bob Brink, and Mark Keam. Even Ben and I seem to get along (although it was rocky at the start). But this is the first time I’ve ever been banned from a blog for any reason, especially for posting “too often” or for presenting my point of view. I think it’s a pretty bad precedent for any blog to set to ban (even via a vote) contributors or commenters – especially known quantities writing without pseudonyms – simply for presenting a point of view that they disapprove of. One of the reasons I gravitated to Too Conservative a few years ago when I started reading local blogs was that the site was open and there were folks on both sides of the aisle arguing and debating with no censorship. I’ve found that encouraging commenters to engage in debate and discussion both brings more visitors to the site, but also enriches the content by providing points of view that may not be available to the author or the rest of the community – I know I’ve appreciated comments made by Dan, edmundburkenator, AFF and many other Democratic visitors even if we’ve disagreed. And while I recognize that all sites need moderation (you’d be amazed at the number of Russian spam LI, Cato, TC and I deal with on a daily basis), moderation shouldn’t be used to silence dissenting voices.
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I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Seeing how Democrats, liberals and progressives respond to Republicans, the idea of treating someone on the other side of the aisle with respect and being accepting of foreign viewpoints doesn’t seem to be one that has a lot of support in that side of the blogosphere. Daily Kos (and Blue Virginia) has a system where readers can rate comments, which allows for reader moderation of trolls but also opens itself up to abuse and viewpoint censorship. Instead of blocking inappropriate comments, readers can choose to block out comments that they don’t agree with. That seems unAmerican to me. One of the most fundamental philosophies of American politics is that while we may not agree with our neighbor’s beliefs, we would fight for their right to express those beliefs. It’s unfortunate that the “executive council” of Blue Virginia doesn’t believe in that philosophy.
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We care about our readers here, on both sides of the aisle. You all can rest assured that so long as you aren’t posting porn, threatening to sue one of us, trying to “out” one of the pseudonymous bloggers, or making threats, you’ll never see your comments censored or deleted – at least, not without a very good reason. And you certainly won’t be banned for commenting “too much.” I love comments on my stories. That’s what America is all about – debate and discussion.
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Apr 13th by Brian S
“posting porn”
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Just to clarify, *I* won’t be deleting any of this, as long as the chicks are hot.
And that goes double for lesbian bondage.
That’s sad. Over this mining deal? If so, that is really sad. Your points were valid. Now the saying that there was nothing offensive in McDonnell’s Proclamation and that people who were offended were just looking to be offended was ridiculous. And your mental gymnastics on the voting rights restoration was a little bit much. But I see those as good for entertainment value.
I still think you shouldn’t let two sites color your view about Democratic blogs. You keep painting this broad brush of Democrats and liberals based on your experience with two state blogs. That’s a little unfair.
The Tazewell County mine in question is in Virginia, not West Virginia by the way. It is operated by Knox Creek Coal Company a Massey subsidiary.
Ugh. I hate mental typos. Let me fix that.
This sounds pretty lame.
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I don’t visit Blue Virginia (not enough lesbian bondage links), but I might just to see if it is, in fact, a Marxist echo chamber.
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“I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Seeing how Democrats, liberals and progressives respond to Republicans, the idea of treating someone on the other side of the aisle with respect and being accepting of foreign viewpoints doesn’t seem to be one that has a lot of support in that side of the blogosphere.”
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I think this dynamic is functioning on both sides of the blog spectrum. Not just the Dem, lib, prog blogs.
I hope not, Ed. I don’t know of any Republican blogs that ban folks for posting a differing point of view – if I did, I’d call them out for it.
“But I see those as good for entertainment value.”
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I kinda thought that was the point. If there isn’t a knock-down-drag-out going on in the comments, it isn’t a good thread.
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That said, I have cautiously high hopes for this one.
Cato, this is why I thoroughly enjoy your comments.
On a serious note, I think you’re overreacting a bit. You erroneously assumed that BV is a blog; it’s not. It’s a business dressed up as a blog, he admits as much in his note. How many blogs have “executive boards?” Why would the number of comments you post “take up way too much of their time?”
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It’s because they’re running a business, and that business is dissemination of far left propaganda. It’s designed to cement new media credibility among the ultra “progressive” crowd, because that’s who votes in the primary, and it makes the owners/operators bankable come campaign time. Banning you was a business decision, you were
a foolnaïve to go over there and expect honest debate.Ok. I read the Massy/Cooch thread.
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First, that site looks like ass.
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Second, as expected, you wrote nothing that should draw a ban (or whatever they’ve done).
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Third, again, no lesbian pron.
Hmm… if it’s a business, what generates their revenue?
They’re pros. Consulting revenue, that and any ad revenue generated off the site, and I saw plenty up there during election season.
That’s total crap
“I gravitated to Too Conservative a few years ago when I started reading local blogs was that the site was open and there were folks on both sides of the aisle arguing and debating with no censorship.”
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I think I gravitated here because I clicked in one day and saw LI calling some politician a douchebag on the front page. I thought to myself “this is my kind of blog.”
What’s total crap?
Moonhowlings is not a huge liberal blog, but they do allow conservative comments. I’ve had a good time discussing numerous topics over at Moonhowlings. If they allow me, they’ll let any civil conservative talk. Only rule is to keep it civil.
Cato, that’s a good point. Especially considering a couple of stories they were pushing with the local media – I know Lowell had shopped around the “McDonnell plagiarizes Sarah Palin” on the Christian Heritage Week proclamation that I blew out of the water by doing about ten minutes worth of research.
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But I probably am overreacting. Do I really need to lament one less site to be berated on? I don’t think I’ve ever been called a liar so often in my life – even when I was actually in the Bush Administration.
wow. the ban hammer should come out for extreme hurtful comments or gratuitous assholer-y. too bad they are busy. sounds more like they are wimps.
“if there isn’t a knock-down-drag-out going on in the comments, it isn’t a good thread.
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That said, I have cautiously high hopes for this one.”
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Naw. This one’s going to turn into a feel good everyone get along thread, but I’ll see what I can do.
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Brian, I take great offense to this-
“I know I’ve appreciated comments made by Dan, edmundburkenator, AFF and many other Democratic visitors even if we’ve disagreed.”
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Dude, I’m not a fucking democrat. A visitor with an opposing viewpoint from yours- yes. A democrat- no fucking way. Please respect my extreme left of center views and refer to me by the correct political nomenclature of conservative radical (adjective/noun)
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On a serious note- there’s a reason why this blog gets more traffic than the echo chambers of BV and Nova TH, and it’s not for the lesbian bondage porn. Who wants to be on that island anyway. Keep writing Brian (and read Born Fighting)
I’ll have to pick up the book, AFF. Hopefully it’s available on Kindle. I’ve actually been meaning to pick it up – just got a bunch of other stuff on my reading list ahead of it (besides school work!).
Okay. I have finally stopped laughing at the concept of a blog having an “executive board”. They sure seem to be a pretentious lot don’t they?.
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Brian, you don’t even come close to what any reasonable person would call a bomb thrower. Like all of us you can be a bit snarky from time to time. But nothing approaching the level of being a troll. And you can tend to paint the opposition with a broad brush and have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to your own guys. But all of us partisans are guilty of that from time to time. Okay there are a few exceptions to that rule, but screw them I never liked saints.
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I have rarely ventured over to Blue Virginia but I thought it was a legit blog. If they are giving you the boot for vigorously but politely expressing an opposing view they are pretty pathetic. I guess you are supposed to state your view and then slink away after it has been shot down by others. What a bunch of pussies they must be.
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The greatest offense is producing a boring blog. And the give and take in the comments section is often what makes it interesting and fun.
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I thought you were engaging in over the top rhetoric when you spoke of doing Marxist outreach. The banning of other than approved views is not how it usually works in America.
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But let’s not kid ourselves. The inability to even consider an opposing view or to seek information that doesn’t merely reinforce preconceived notions is a problem with people across the political spectrum. So many minds that are shut tight and rusted closed.
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Not a good formula for finding answers to problems.
“I don’t think I’ve ever been called a liar so often in my life – even when I was actually in the Bush Administration.”
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In the words of that great American, Elwood Blues, “That wasn’t lies. That was just bullshit”.
AHHHH!!!
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Wait a second. I am not a Democrat either!
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(I really need to read the entire post in the future).
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While I’m happy you have appreciated my comments, you have not been paying much attention, Brian.
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I am a man without an island. Your party sucks. So does the other one. Yours sucks worse right now. I vote for the smarter guy (or gal).
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While your on your Kindle, order up a copy of “The Constitution of Liberty” (it’s the 50th Anniversary).
If these guys are going to be douches, why do you keep them on your official blogroll? Boot ‘em.
Also, all of us pick on that knee-jerk progressive Tribbett from time to time, but at least he doesn’t ban people unless you really piss him off (and that’s a different standard on different days). Give credit where it’s due.
Blue Virginia makes no bones about the fact that they are nothing more than a money-making arm for a bunch of partisan hacks.
Brian–
That’s bulls*t that they did that, especially since you’re not exactly some fanatical teabagger to the right of Pinochet who is there to troll. What the hell? There’s not ENOUGH dialogue between the two sides. Echo chambers are bad, you should at least let some of the (non-troll) opposition participate to keep things honest.
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Their site, their rules, but it’s lame.
Reminds me of a good joke.
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There was a Canadian Goose who was trying to get to the top of a tree. He was having a hard time getting airborne, and was sitting next to the tree, looking dejected. A bull happened to be in the pasture near the tree and called over to the goose. He told the goose to eat some of his cow chips and try again. The Goose wasn’t sure if this would work, but he was out of options and decided to give it a try.
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So he ate one chip and, just like the bull said, he flew a little higher. He ate another, and flew higher. One more, and even higher. Finally, after he’d stuffed himself, he reached the top of the tree….where he was promptly shot by the farmer and brought home for dinner.
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The moral of the story is…you can get to the top on bullshit, but you won’t stay there very long.
I know some of you guys aren’t Democrats, but I like tweaking you by calling you that.
“I don’t know of any Republican blogs that ban folks for posting a differing point of view – if I did, I’d call them out for it.”
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RedState, FreeRepublic. Little Green Footballs before they went back to the center-left (My nickname for Chalres Johnson is “Talleyrand”, since he just seems to side with whoever is in power at the moment).
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I really wish somebody would start a bi-partisan blog, and have an equal number of Democratic and Republican moderators on it.
Ed, that’s another book on my list. I’ve got the Road to Serfdom lying around here somewhere, but half of my books are still in the garage because I need to get some more bookshelves. Way too many books for my own good.
RD, that’s crap. I hate sites that can’t handle a little criticism. I’ve got some of the thickest skin out there (although Lowell did claim I was thin skinned today – go figure) and I think that’s pretty much a prerequisite to being involved in politics at all. If you can’t take someone calling you a fat, stupid, partisan hack shilling for the forces of pure evil without getting upset, I would suggest going to actuarial school.
I agree about having to have thick skin. Then again, I’m used to being in the minority and taking heat politically since I grew up in south-central Virginia in a fairly liberal Democratic family. During the 1992 election my elementary school class (I forget which grade I was in at the time, I think 2nd or 3rd) had a mock election, and I was one of three white kids that voted for Clinton. It was pretty much like that for me until college.
And you CAN go too far in the other direction where you don’t moderate *at all*, and the trolls hijack every comment discussion. Locally, I’m thinking of NLS.
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Nationally, the best example is Matt Yglesias’s blog at thinkprogress.org. The comments section there is like the peanut gallery of an insane asylum.
Congratulations, Brian!
I have to say that I’m pretty shocked. As opposed to the crap you see on some of those liberal blogs (especially NLS), your posts are always both insightful and well reasoned. Apparently, reason is too much for them to handle.
RD, here’s a blog right up your alley:
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http://www.tnr.com/blogs/Jonathan-Chait
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I think it’s kinda new so not a lot of comments…
Since I am mentioned in the original post among the “Democratic visitors” and others are stating their lack of party affiliation, let me make clear that I am indeed a Democrat. In the words of the great Sam Rayburn, “I am a Democrat without prefix, without suffix, and without apology.”
RichmondDem, the troll population has indeed risen dramatically at NLS. But you have to admit that NLS has its own unique charm. Once you get acquainted with Ben’s idiosyncrasies it is a fun blog. And the boy does get some traffic.
Mr. Dan, what you have written reminds Ravi of a very famous saying which has been said many many many times in the place where I am formerly from.
In fact it is one of the very most famous sayings of all the many famous sayings that exist, and especially of the sayings that warrant being said most.
It goes like this, “I am the Eggman, they are the Eggmen, I am the Walrus, goo, goo, g’joob, goo, goo, g’joob.”
So, I say unto you, Mr. Dan: “I am the Walrus.” Most definitely.
So I set up an account at Blue Virginia and posted a comment in regard to its post about how to start a successful blog. I couldnt’ resist the opportunity to point out the irony in suppressing contrarian thought, and so I posted something to that effect. Apparently, I have now been banned – and in record time I’d suppose!
Ravi Oli, I would never have guessed that you were from Liverpool. You don’t write like the typical Liverpudlian.
LOL, at Blue Virginia, “opinions we disagree with” = “whitewashing.” They are becoming a joke.
Lloyd, that is impressive. I haven’t seen a blog ban someone that fast since the PUMAs were at their height ranting about how Hillary had had the nomination “stolen” from her. Even merely pointing out that Hillary herself was strongly supporting Obama and was urging all her supporters to do the same was enough to get you banned.
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Apparently Blue Virginia is proving themselves to be a joke. And giving liberals a bad name in the process.
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Although I suppose they refer to themselves as “progressives”. That label was adopted by liberals who were too spineless to continue calling themselves liberals when you guys tried to turn it into a dirty word. Rather than wear it like a badge of honor and tell you guys to go fuck yourselves like they should have if they had any self respect.
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Damned pussies.
Lloyd – you broke the number 1 rule of blogs that ban people – don’t talk about banning.
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It’s bad business, as Cato points out.
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Or else they assumed it was me, but they should be able to check the IPs pretty easily. I’m certainly not posting over there again unless they were to invite me back. I don’t go where I’m not wanted.
I disagree. A “progressive” is farther left than a “liberal”.
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My personal definition of the difference between a progressive and a liberal is that a progressive hates the rich more than they like the poor and middle class. They want power to mostly be concentrated in the government instead of other institutions.
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A liberal likes the poor and middle class, and don’t particularly hate the rich so much as they don’t want the rich (and corporations) to have disproportionate political power. Liberals are against concentrated power anywhere, full stop (checks and balances) while conservatives are against *only* concentrated government power.
RD, that seems to be how they define themselves over there. Nothing got Lowell’s dander up faster than talking about corporations.
No worries, bro. I got banned from Vivian Paige’s blog for using the term “Democrat Party.” I’m sure she just got tired of trying to deal with logic, which I continually threw in her face. Mark Blacknell banned me before I even posted on his blog, just from losing so many arguments on Paige’s blog.
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They’re just a bunch of losers and whiners who cannot use facts and logic to back up their screwball philosophies, so they ban those who can.
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That’s why 0bama’s next SCOTUS pick will be so amusing. He’ll pick a left-wing whiner with zero logic skills. (Is there any other kind of madlib?)
RichmondDem, perhaps you are right. It just seemed to me that the whole “progressive” thing started when the Republicans started sounding like damned Smurfs. You know. “Smurf smurf smurfy smurf (the most illiterate kids show ever). Except with Republicans it was liberal liberal liberal dangerously liberal. You could tell which conservatives had the least to say by how often they spat out the word liberal with all the hostility their tiny little brains could muster.
The irony is you knew they would move on. When they decided that liberal just wasn’t strong enough any more they started in with all the silly socialist and Marxist nonsense. Oh well, I guess it works for them. The Fox News zombies seem to like it.
“Naw. This one’s going to turn into a feel good everyone get along thread, but I’ll see what I can do.”
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That’s why I love you man. Persistence. For the record I love fighting with our contrarians. AFF, Dan, Ed, RD, tx2va and people I’m sure I’m leaving out can hold up with the best of ‘em, and I’m glad they choose to comment here. Trading rhetorical jabs makes for better argument and idea formation. Win and you learn a little. Lose and you learn a bit more. It’s a win-win situation.
Well, damn! Check out the big brain on Jack! He can use facts and logic to support his screwball philosophies! And obviously anyone who disagrees with Jack is barely capable of rational thought and is totally incapable of using facts or logic to support an argument.
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I don’t always agree with Vivian Paige, but she is a class act. I imagine if she banned you it was for more than simply sounding like a moron by insisting on dropping the last syllable from a proper name.
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Hey, Cato! How was that? Just trying to do my bit to meet your expectations for comments on this thread. What was it you said you were looking for? A knock-down-drag-out for entertainment value?
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You can thank me later.
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Glad you enjoyed the Bible Spice comment.
cato,
him getting banned.
“Hey, Cato! How was that? Just trying to do my bit to meet your expectations for comments on this thread. What was it you said you were looking for? A knock-down-drag-out for entertainment value?”
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7/10. You rarely disappoint. However, your comments elsewhere indicate that you are capable of a much higher level of vitriol. Let it out man!
I was banned at TalkLeft for using the term democrat party. I twice forgot the IC and that was it, banned! Democrats don’t like those who disagree with them but I am shocked that anyone would ban Brian. He’s so nice and so polite.
It is very funny that they have an executive board! How typical of the elitist left.
Ridiculous!!!
One of the great social contributions of well-run blogs is that they do provide a forum for a lot of people to exchange views. My outlook on issues has been changed from time to time by observations I hear from people with differing viewpoints. The blogs bring us together to talk about things that we find interesting. It’s even worth enduring a little wackiness now and then to keep the discussion going. One of the reasons that TC has, over its life, been capable of generating 100 comment threads is that we do get a variety of viewpoints.
Brian is a careful and conscientious blogger. He is civil, thoughtful and polite. Any site that would ban him doesn’t have any connection with small d democrats and should be an embarrassment to the large D Democrats. That kind of reaction is more reminiscent of the old Soviet approach than to anything of our times.
“Well, damn! Check out the big brain on Jack! He can use facts and logic to support his screwball philosophies! And obviously anyone who disagrees with Jack is barely capable of rational thought and is totally incapable of using facts or logic to support an argument.”
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Dan finally sees the light! I guess there is hope for him still.
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Just sit down here at my feet, Danny-boy, and I will slowly and gently show you the ways of fact, logic, and reason; and when you too have mastered their intricacies, you too will be a conservative.
“I imagine if [Vivian Paige] banned you it was for more than simply sounding like a moron by insisting on dropping the last syllable from a proper name.”
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Why don’t you ask her, before she’s too busy filling out her responses to the Supreme Court Nominee Questionnaire. My use of the term “Democrat Party” was her excuse. Liberals (sorry, “progressives” — what the 773H are they progressing TO, anyway?) only have excuses; they do not have reasons.
Just needing to create an account on Blue Virginia says they don’t want reasoned debate discussion.
Wow, Brian, I am impressed.
Lowell has deleted my comments before, but never banned me.
I agree with Cato on the whole “business” of attempting to manufacture cred, both -entials and -ibility, for “progressives”.
The netroots are reimaging and regrouping, and probably really DON’T have the time to deal with what you put up, as they surely can’t allow it to actually sit there on their bandwidth where it could be read and digested by any passerby, who might then burp up the partyline pap that is the real product.
I’d wear it as a badge, which, when the sites go the way of Little Green Footballs, will be a true blogosphere badge of honor due to their vintage.
lolol
Dan, I think the evolution of “progressive” is only partially due to the fact that some people began to use the word “liberal” as a pejorative.
I think there is a constant and deliberate morphing of the lexicon that is only partially in response to non-creators using words in a generally accepted meme-meaning, and which has much more to do with “creating” new words once people think they know what they’re talking about in using the old ones.
That way the great unwashed flyover audience for the cadres will think they know what is being said, but not really, until it is often too late.
IMO, “progressives” are much more hardline (and potentially dangerous) than plain old “liberals”, and both are absolutely fine words.
Context is always all, and can differ between speaker and hearer in the same conversation.
Which is very useful for someone with a word-based agenda to push.
My current pet peeve is the fact that “creative” now seems to be a noun, and refers to a new class of job/workers, as in “Young CREATIVES invested in making their community blah blah blah…”
I wonder, are most “creatives” “progressive”?
I suspect they just may be! lolol
Creatives tend to be the kinds of twenty somethings who think riding a bike to work is a good idea, and they like to sport hemp necklaces and neckbeards.
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So, in other words, hippies.
Congratulations Brian! Now my curiosity is picqued – I bet I can get “banned” at Blue Virginia in one post, or 10 minutes – depending on how long it takes them to moderate. I will use another name to protect the innocent (well, myself really).
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There is only so much time in one day, 3-4 sites is my tops and I can’t even get to those everyday. I come here and Novatownhall everyday because it is Loudoun-centric and all politics is local. What was the Loudoun left leaning site that shut down about a year ago? I used to enjoy the chaos over there – Earth Goddess was particularly irritating and fun to bash around.
I’m too snarky. I’d get banned quick over there.
Barbara – Meghan McCain has proclaimed herself a “Progressive Republican” – I call her a nitwit.
Well, well Brian and Jack were banned as “trolls”. Welcome to the club, guys. Well as a half troll I have never been banned not even from World Mag blog where I was christened. Well Barbara Curtis banned me but I even got a blog entry dedicated to me for my troubles there so no harm done.
In all seriousness, I would not visit Blue Virginia if my life depended on it now given how they treated Brian. Unless you all want to organize a blog raid that is – then I’m in!!
Jack, I can understand though, I mean he can’t even get the name of the Democratic Party right – they probably thought he was some middle schooler that hijacked Mom’s computer – its understandable.
“I bet I can get “banned” at Blue Virginia in one post, or 10 minutes – depending on how long it takes them to moderate.”
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Maybe we can break the record for number of posters banned in one day. As Otter said, “I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part.” Who’s with me??? (in my best John Belushi voice)
“Meghan McCain has proclaimed herself a “Progressive Republican” – I call her a nitwit.”
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I predict a sex tape scandal in the near future…
I got my log-in and will report back on time. The real talent lies in picking the best story and going right up to the line in a comment, but not crossing. The site is very hard on the eyes though, too much going on on the main page.
LL, It doesn’t count if you just rush in and shout “Democrat” and run away, you know. Any “Jack” can do that and get booted. It has to be more subtle.
BTW, I have my log-in and have made my first comment as well.
I can see why some folks would want to call themselves progressives – Theodore Roosevelt was a progressive, although the term was far different then that it is now. Liberals are the time period hadn’t really gelled yet – the folks who would have called themselves liberals today would have been radicals back then.
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What frustrates me about politics – especially partisan politics – is the desire, and in some situations the pathos, that folks have for characterizing the other side as evil or bad. When I see knee-jerk hatred for Republicans, Bush Administration officials, global warming skeptics, some denominations of Christianity, corporations in all their forms, etc. it really makes me question how sophisticated and thoughtful the hater really is. Life is not like the movies. There aren’t “good guys” and “bad guys.” Even the worst bad guys in real life aren’t 100% evil. And even the good guys aren’t 100% good. People are people, and attributing malice to every action someone takes or questioning their motives constantly seems to me to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think someone is evil, anything they do, good or bad can be rationalized into them fulfilling whatever nefarious plot they’ve decided upon this week. So when the left goes after McDonnell and Cuccinelli, calling McDonnell a “Manchurian Candidate” and referring to Cuccinelli as Kookinelli, I just have to shake my head at the absurdity of it all. Here are a large group of people who have never run for office (for the most part), have never had to be held accountable for what they say, have never had to try and govern at all, and they want to armchair quarterback everything anybody in an elected position does? And if they disagree, it’s not just a disagreement, it’s more evidence that their target is the embodiment of Satan (or, since they usually don’t believe in Satan, Darth Vader or some other symbol of evil). That dumbs down politics and ignores the realities of the modern world.
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Governance is hard. A lot harder than it is running a campaign or winning an election. Just ask President Obama. So when I write my columns and I make my criticisms, I try my best to be fair and to provide reasons for why I’m being critical. And I don’t just knee-jerk attack anybody I don’t like simply for the sake of scoring a few points. It’s unfortunate that not everyone is like that.
Progressives have a checkered past in American History. From my recollection, they split around the Wilson administration into two flavors. Liberals are a whole different set of groups with some overlaps.
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Don’t buy the popular Straussian-based crap that passes for intellectualism on NRO.
“When I see knee-jerk hatred for Republicans, Bush Administration officials, global warming skeptics, some denominations of Christianity, corporations in all their forms, etc.”
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Or Liberals/Progressives/Democrats, Obama Administration officials, global warming scientists, not “true” Christians (and other religions), unions in all forms, etc.
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See, balance, Brian, balance…jesh, know wonder you got banned
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Eric, that’s why I mentioned the going up to but not crossing the line – I’m not going to throw bombs – only lob some softballs. Let’s see how thin skinned they really are.
Brian, At least people are recognizing Teddy R and Wilson as the Progressives they were – and yes, their definition or curiosity on Progressivism is much different than today.
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Look at the word Democracy and how is has been used to push the socialist agenda over the past 100 years, it is knowingly misused everyday by this administration to push their similar agenda.
I have yet to hear a self-described “progressive” say just what it is they are progressing TO. Why is that?
“attributing malice to every action someone takes or questioning their motives constantly seems to me to be a self-fulfilling prophecy”
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Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. I just attribute “progressive” theories to stupidity, especially since they cannot stand up to facts and logic.
How bizarre! It’s only speech. What hope is there for the rest of us to enter into debate when the most polite, level-headed, impeccably candid and literate among us is banned in in the Blue? Whenever I see or hear of something like this I become all that much more motivated to do attack (politically of course) the thought police and nanny culture.
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And Cato, watch yourself on that lesbian bondage stuff. They won’t let you comment in the Blue either. To be PC in Democratic Blogland you need to include Trannies as well.
I am disappointed that Brian can no longer post at Blue Virginia. I continue to respect his opinion, and will look forward to reading it here and other Virginia blogs.
And I’ve always said I’m a liberal Democrat. In part, because I’m stubborn and I don’t like Republicans getting to define the word liberal in a negative way. It’s a good word with a long and important history, and I like it!
Not sure about RichmondDem’s description of a progressive. My husband defines himself as a progressive, but he works for a Fortune 100 Company, so he can’t hate corporations THAT much! But it is very much true that we care passionately about the middle, working, and lower classes and the impact that all forms of consolidated power (including, but not limited to, government) have on our daily lives.
Gretchen, the problem I have with that definition of progressive is that I am for all of those things – I care passionately about the middle, working and lower classes and the impact on them of the decisions others make both in and out of government. I think even the most ardent conservative, focused primarily on their own interests, would do well to recognize that actions have consequences on others outside their own sphere and to do their best to minimize those consequences that are negative.
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Both parties are trying to do their best to create an America that is fair and allows everyone the chance to succeed. How to get there is where the lines are drawn. That’s why I tend to follow Reagan’s old line that Democrats aren’t evil, they’re just wrong.
(laughing) Good child of the Reagan era that I am, I’ve incorporated that quote into my own personal schtick — with one teeny tiny change, of course!
Look up Progressivism in Wikipedia, “Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform.” Well, it’s just that simple – snap!
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Jack, The Progressives are progressing towards total control of an all knowing and consuming central government. It’s quite a horrible progression.
…….the egg had been laid…… or in other words, t-minus 1 minute and counting
You guys have got Lowell riled now!
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“…We let Brian S. spew inaccuracies, slanders, and right-wing talking points for many, many months before we finally said “enough’s enough.” Another problem with Brian is that he posted constantly, taking over entire threads and diverting the discussion from the point of the diary. That’s an almost classic definition of a “troll,” and definitely not something most blogs (right, left, center, whatever) want to have around.”
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I made a couple of inaccuracies, sure – considering I’m human and make mistakes. But I correct them. I don’t know about slanders, though. Lowell seems to think when someone questions whether he knows what he’s talking about or what his basis for knowledge is, that’s an “ad hominem” attack, and I guess when I accused him of thinking McDonnell was a “closet racist” because of his constant calling of McDonnell “Pat Robertson’s Manchurian Candidate” he blew up. See, in “progressive” world, we shouldn’t read into the things that are said – only they are allowed to do that. And it’s hilarious that these guys claim that they don’t ban based on point of view, yet cite the comment that I was spewing “right-wing talking points” as a reason for banning me.
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It’s laughable. The more they dig, they more foolish they look.
Lowell should be paying you for the additional traffic…
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Hey…
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Wait a minute…
“intellectualism on NRO”
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I try not to apply that label to a bunch of guys with journalism and communications degrees. (/dripping with contempt for liberal arts)
What thread are you being blasted on Brian?
The Norm Ornstein one. I wish I was getting paid for the traffic. Like I said before, if it weren’t for me, the only people commenting on his posts would be the other members of the Supreme Executive Oligarchy Board over there.
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Here’s another BV classic headline: “Cuccinelli Predicts All Americans to Die”
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Well, last time I checked, everyone dies. So Cuccinelli’s prediction is pretty much spot on.
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Hilarious.
My headline in “Cucinnelli bats a 1000 on Death Statistics”.
Hey Brian,
I didn’t have a problem with your comments over there. I attempted some dialogue with you and you responded in kind. Thank you.
I’ll venture over here for some discussion with Republicans.
Really? I thought blogs – particularly the comments – is all about an open, transparent and honest exchange of ideas? Apparently not so much for some. Well, this should free you up for more time to comment at BD!
I really need to do that J.R. – I haven’t been on BD as often as I really should be. At the very least, I’d be among friends, rather than surrounded by people who think I sprang half formed out of the bile ducts of Dick Cheney.
Kevin, you’re welcome here any time.
Our friends on the left are just jealous – they too wish they formed from pods in an undisclosed location like us.
Gretchen, I wanted to respond to what you wrote over on NLS.
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(banging head on desk) It is not “Un-American” to ban someone from a personal blog!!! I read every single one of Brian’s posts carefully and with a great deal of respect. I am sorry that I will not be able to read them on Blue Virginia.
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I never said the banning was unAmerican. I said banning simply because you don’t like the other person’s point of view is unAmerican. The folks over at BV are free to post whatever the choose and allow whomever they want to post to post. But when they specifically ban someone primarily because he’s espousing a conservative viewpoint, that goes against most people’s idea of fair play. That’s what’s unAmerican.
What did you expect, Brian? You can’t just go to a liberal blog and start spouting facts and logic and expect them to stand for it.
Lowell will probably love this diary I just posted.
http://www.bluevirginia.us/diary/355/lowell-feld-and-company-read-your-history-your-party-is-the-party-of-racism-hate-segregation
Brian…I was banned at BV , like back in 2008, dude. You will live far past that assholic little napoleonic prick’s “ban”. He actually saved you a few minutes a day.
LOL at that Lowell guy call Brian a troll. Haha, he obviously has never met some of the people we have. Hmm, maybe they should be introduced!
Brian:
Seems to be a trend going on in the Dem blogosphere. I got a ban threat at NLS today for saying that Ben criticizes any Democrat who’s not a Northern Virgina Liberal.
Apparently this qualifies as a “personal attack.” Seemed to qualify as “stating the obvious” to me.
I got banned! My log-in doesn’t work. I saw a warning last night about a personal attack which amounted to me telling one of their regular bloggers they were throwing in red meat to their peeps to ward off criticism from them (ie mentioning RUsh and Beck) – so that is that.
Man they are the most thin-skinned blue Virginians I’ve ever come across! I’m a little embarrassed for them, t
Steve, I am willing to bet that Ben won’t ban you. That is not typical of him. You probably just caught him on a bad day.
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I got an e-mail like that from Ben once a long time ago. I think it was either during one of his lengthy vendettas against Connolly or maybe during a string of adoring posts about Hillary or Leslie Byrne (both of whom I like). I made one too many comments about the obsession and must have rubbed him the wrong way. He didn’t ban me though. And I doubt he will ban you.
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You just have to learn to appreciate Ben’s unique charm.
And I can’t imagine Ben banning someone for merely expressing a contrary view.
Must be something in the air. Everyone is really thin skinned lately.
I too have gotten an email threat from Ben, but we worked it out.
Brian — my response about “UN-American” was not directed to you, but to the poster directed above me at NLS. (If you used that term, I missed seeing it.) Using that word flippantly bothers me — and it’s not a partisan thing. For instance, I do not, like many, believe it is un-American for Sean Hannity to cut off a liberal’s microphone. (It’s rude to have someone on as a guest and do that, but it’s not un-American.)
I’m commenting on how quickly we went from a personal situation — Brian being blocked at BV (a situation I think is disappointing and do not support) — to ratcheting up the rhetoric within only a few minutes. Both parties do it. But both seem only interested in calling the other on it. One of the things that got Brian banned was that he was fighting against what many Democrats do as an almost knee-jerk reaction — calling someone who disagrees with them a racist. I think that’s counterproductive and even cruel, and I’ll go on the record saying so. But in supporting Brian, some conservatives jumped on their own knee-jerk train by saying what happened was un-American.
(grin) Does the fact that I pointed this out mean I’m going to banned from TC?
Jack wrote: “What did you expect, Brian? You can’t just go to a liberal blog and start spouting facts and logic and expect them to stand for it.”
I’m guessing that Brian got banned for the number of posts, and the fact that the purpose of Blue Virginia was to arrive at a…um…Democratic Virginia. The fact that the facts and logic of the posts were (at times) sound and/or defensible does not mean that the volume of posts were compatible with the functioning of a Democratic blog. Jack is probably pushing the limit with Lowell as well. I guess SuzyQ (Loudoun Lady?) is out too, though I can’t figure out exactly why.
I did my part to lobby for Brian’s reinstatement. I guess we’ll see. I personally think that BV should be closed to non-Democrats, but unless that is stated in the terms, it seems wrong to ban someone for a point-of-view.
Gretchen, you make an interesting point about calling things “un-American”. I have always had a problem with that one too. And people from other countries find it particularly odd when Americans do it. There is no equivalent in other lands. You will never hear a Canadian refer to something as being “un-Canadian” or an Irishman referring to something as being “un”Irish”. It makes no sense to them. It just makes no sense period.
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I agree with you on the knee jerk accusations of racism. The 2008 campaign was truly notable for the constant misuse of both charges of racism and misogyny. The terms have been rendered nearly meaningless by being so often misapplied.
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I’m afraid we live in an age of hyperbole and way over the top rhetoric. And that isn’t likely to change any time soon.
“Does the fact that I pointed this out mean I’m going to banned from TC?”
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I’ll bring it up at our next executive board meeting.
Personally, I love blogs where there are lots and lots of comments. I love the give and take. Maybe it’s because someone like me make her living through words and has been communicating online with people for more than a decade now, but I’m able to see most of you as real people. Aside from the political divides and alliances (which surprisingly shift at times) everyone also has a different style and way of posting, different things that set them off, different quirks of character and every possible type of sense of humor. It’s what makes a blog more than just a message board and makes it a community. It’s nice when people use a name that’s easy to remember, but that can be an actual given name or a clever handle like “Bulletproof Monk” or “Cato the Elder” or “Not Larry Sabato.” One thing that posting on blogs has taught me about most regulars — never to assume I know what another poster is going to say. Just when I think I have someone pegged, they’ll actually go and say something that makes me think.
I think the reason why we use phrases like “unAmerican” is simply that unlike many of those other countries, America was founded as much as an idea as it was a nation-state. Things we consider to be fundamentally American – other than cultural stuff like baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet – are our Constitutional rights and the ideals that underpin them, like the idea of a free exchange of ideas.
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This is especially true in the political arena. Political blogs are, inherently, political. They are designed to be freely available to the public, and what we write is for public consumption. If you plan on allowing comments at all, you should expect comments that are critical, especially if your article is crappy.
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I think I really pissed Lowell off when I blew up his story that McDonnell had stolen the Christian Heritage Month proclamation verbiage from Sarah Palin. He was clearly shopping that story around to other bloggers (Ben from NLS picked it up, and so did Rachel Maddow’s blog – who also picked up my proving the story wrong) and the mainstream media (at least one local news website picked it up and attributed it to him). He probably could have gotten a lot of traction on that story simply because it used two of the medias favorite words – Sarah Palin. But the problem was that the story simply wasn’t true.
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Blogs, like news stories, benefit when people can comment on what is being said – if, at the very least, it allows for corrections of the stories as they go along. My post about John Paul Stevens had two factual errors that commenters pointed out and I fixed, both of which made the article stronger. That’s a good thing.
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If you don’t want comments or criticism, turn the comments off. There’s nothing unAmerican about that. But there is something unAmerican about stifling dissent or favoring those opinions that mirror your own.
I agree with Brian on “UnAmerican.” The U.S. is as much a shared dedication to a group of ideas (freedom of speech, of religions, the rule of law, etc.) as it is a geographic location. And I don’t think conservative have a monopoly on calling things “unAmerican.” Stifling free speech, particularly on political topics, is always “unAmerican” no matter which side tries to do it. Advocating settling political questions with gunfire is always “unAmerican” no matter which side proposes it.
Yes, I was SuzyQ – but she has been shut down. Poor Suzy.
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Basically Lowell was calling out Corey Stewart for using the term “nazi” in some comments (mentioning 6 million jews died and of course Corey was being offensive to Jews), but higlighting Jim Moran for pounding Frank Wolfe at some event. So I asked if he would be consistent and call out Moran for his anti-semitic remarks – then I lost my priveleges.
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I pointed out a couple of other people, like NJSM calling all Catholic Priests homosexuals and pedofiles, were making horrible remarks and were allowed to keep posting – but I was warned about “personal attacks” almost immediately when I didn’t agree with a regular poster. If NJSM can post with his potty mouth and disgusting remarks but Brian is banned, why the hell do I want to post and contribute there? Sooooo, thanks for banning me BV – you are a bunch of baby girls.
sorry, pedophiles
LL-Seems to me that bringing up Moran’s past anti-semitic remarks was not only NOT a personal attack, it was right on topic.
I stopped reading Blue Virginia when it began to seem like an echo chamber in there.
BTW, had a been reading I might have been among those attacking Catholic priests. That situation is disgusting and the cover up of it goes right to the heart of the church.
Now this is interesting. Because I see blogs as personal property or a small business, thus I give wide latitude to those establishing them as to how they want to run them. I’d rather have more ham handed interactions than some sort of regulation, formal or informal.
(I’ve mentioned my libertarian streak before, and this might be an example of where I diverge even from conservatives)
naturally I am not talking about a campaign blog or one funded with public money. But I see the right of those who own and run TC to make decisions as to how it should be run as greater than my rights as a private citizen to insist on posting.
I don’t know– rights to use your own property as you see fit sounds pretty American to me…….
Gretch- I think we agree. My “unAmerican” comments weren’t directed at bloggers. However, I do think if you bill yourself as a blog that comments on the Virginia political scene, it behooves you not censor posts or ban people because you don’t like the political opinions they express. Legitmate “personal attacks” or the use of abusinve language is another question entirely.
If Blue Virginia wants to be “a blog for Democrats ONLY” then they should bill themselves as that. Frankly, I think they’d have a lot less influence that way, but if they WANT to preach to the choir, that’s their right.
Steve, I wasn’t defending pedophile priests at all, but the comment was that ALL priests were homosexuals and pedophiles – and that those that stand up for the right to life should stand up against ALL the gay, pedophile priests. Otherwise they were hyprocrites. Basically I asked if NJSM thought all homosexuals were pedophiles, because that is pretty fantastic. I’m sure NJSM crapped his pants, or his head exploded – but he is a particularly digusting poster.
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Gretchen – I could give a flick whether BV banned me, it’s their blog and they can cry if they want to. However I did mock them that I was being oppressed. It’s no skin off my nose if they want to sit congratulate each other on being the superior party. I would think it is kinda boring. It looked like there were 6-12 regulars and everyone else gets banned via executive board approval. I’ve been approved for something – hooray!
“However I did mock them that I was being oppressed.”
Who can help wanting to do the Monty Python Holy Grail bit!?
Bloody peasant.
[...] Brian over at Too Conservative said he got banned from Blue Virginia, I thought I’d go over there and see how long they could deal with [...]