Election Night Results…

By Too Conservative

Dick Black coming on strong in Loudoun. UPDATE: Looks like with 60% of the vote that FitzSimmonds and Stirrup are splitting the vote.

Marty Nohe wins first precinct: “Marshall Elementary where I carried the precinct 134-36!”

Looking like Tito Munoz will lose to ousted RPV Chairman Jeff Frederick…pretty handily.

Tom Garrett was endorsed by Ken Cuccinelli but appears to be in a VERY tight race.

Randy Minchew looks to win in his Loudoun based district vs. John Whitbeck. Basing this on Clarke County returns.

Dang…John Stirrup closed the gap to less than 1% of the vote…amazing.


  • David says:

    With all precincts reporting, Randy Minchew has indeed won the Republican nomination in the 10th House district.

  • Loudoun Insider says:

    Thank God Whitbeck can’t bring his Lansdowne style to Richmond. There will be a few tears over that one tonight from people who cut off their noses to spite their face.

  • Loudoun Insider says:

    Unfortunately it looks like Dick frigging Black is back. Icky poo.

  • Tres Conservative says:

    If it had been a two-man race it would have been Minchew 61, Whitbeck 38% because Townsend was the most moderate of the 3.
    Whitbeck’s temperament is not well-suited for public service. He should enroll in anger management.

  • Tres Conservative says:

    Stirrup should have won. Black is not well-suited for public service. He should retire.

  • Independent Voter says:

    As I predicted, Black is back, big time!!! The Brigade knows how to GOTV and that resulted in this win. But the PFG is going to get is arse kicked in the general. The Dems must be salivating again.

  • Dan says:

    The plastic fetus guy wins with 38.81% of the vote.

    Two normal people splitting the vote sufficiently so that a crackpot with a following can squeak through is no way to pick a nominee.

    Kinda makes the case for requiring a runoff doesn’t it?

  • Loudoun Insider says:

    Minchew Black and Ramadan are the winners.

  • Independent Voter says:

    Congratulations to Randy Minchew. Now there’s a true winner. It kinda makes up for the PFG fiasco, but not really. The thought of this nut-case back in Richmond is just sickening.

  • Loudoun Insider says:

    Stirrup’s campaign was awful. I kept my thoughts to myself publicly but did send a couple emails their way to tell them to knock it off with the stupid negative attacks. I saw no real ground game from them. He just flushed his once promising political career down the tubes, and his campaign manager deserves all the blame.

    I really find it hard to believe that Dick Black may soon be the State Senator for my district. Watch out all you homos – Dick and Eugene are coming for ya! Loudoun can once agin be known as the land of the homosexual obsessed Christian Talibaners. Amazing.

  • NoVA Scout says:

    I have no idea what the Dems are up to out there, but can’t they now run a package of frozen calamari against Dick Black and win?

  • Loudoun Insider says:

    Normally you would think so, Scout, but the LCDC is a total trainwreck run by incompetent leftists. Shawn whatshisname is their Senate nominee, a guy no one has heard of, and his ticketmates in the Loudoun districts are mostly horrendous. Even with Plastic Fetus Guy as the GOP nominee, the Dems are going to have a huge uphill battle to win that one, especially with the morons they have running their party apparatus, both locally and statewide with Saslaw.

  • NoVA Scout says:

    PS: it looks like Bob FitzSimmonds has made another major contribution to GOP electoral vulnerability by diluting Stirrup’s strength in the Prince William components of the district. This guy could have figured out that he has no electoral future some time ago, one would surmise.

  • NoVA Scout says:

    This is why, LI, you and I often get criticised for harrumphing about maintaining high standards within the Republican Party. It really is possible in Virginia to offer the citizens pretty low-grade stuff in November and still win. I think what we’re trying to say is that just because the other side is incompetent doesn’t mean we have to be too. But that’s a hard message to get across when there are people with extremely low expectations from the political process.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    I supported Whitbeck but congrats to Minchew for winning a good race and looking forward to a win in November. I supported Black and congratulate him. Sometimes your guy wins, sometimes he loses. I wish them both the best and hope they are both victorious in November.

  • Fred says:

    Dick Black ran a great campaign and campaigned on issues maintaining a positive tone despite the negativity from Stirrup. Congratulations on a well-earned victory.

    Stirrup should sue his campaign manager for political malpractice – he offered a model of how not to run a campaign. So should Ramadan for allowing his campaign manager to send out a ridulous e-mailer saying Chase is an alien.

  • Patrick Scott says:

    Unfortunately the right wing Mormon Candyland won Gainesville District in PW County. He typifies what is wrong with politics with his extremism and intolerance. I may look to vote Democratic for the first time in my life.

  • Muslim Conservative says:

    Greg, Why do you not mention Ramadan?

  • David says:

    Two observations I have about today after having a chance to delve into the numbers a bit more:

    1. Perhaps ironically, turnout was highest of all the GOP Senate primaries in the 3rd, where Sen. Norment faced only a nominal challenger (beating turnout in the 5-way race in the 22nd). This was due to significant overlap with competitive primaries downballot in the 98th House district (seat of retiring Del. Morgan, where turnout broke 16%-the highest of any General Assembly race today) and York/Poquoson (incumbent Commonwealth’s Attorney defeated 3-1 and four York supervisors survived primary challengers).

    2. In the 13th Senate primary, both Black and Stirrup received roughly the same vote percentage in their home counties (Black 53.2% in Loudoun, Stirrup 54% in Prince William). Percentagewise, the turnout in Prince William was more than twice the turnout in Loudoun. Not surprisingly, Black came in third place in Prince William (over 80% of the Prince William vote was for Stirrup and FitzSimmonds), but Black was able to prevail overall due to Loudoun comprising over 70% of the district and Stirrup and FitzSimmonds splitting the Prince William vote.

  • LeesburgDad says:

    Shawn Mitchell has a real chance to beat Dick Black. If people look past the (D), they’ll see he is a veteran and a businessman. Aren’t those the sorts of credentials that Republicans like? Given Black’s extremism, I think a lot of moderate Republicans might be willing to vote Mitchell.

  • BlackOut says:

    Damn, looks like I am stuck with “BlackOut” for a few more months. As promised the moment Black loses again I will change my handle. Not really a surprise.

    I was already for the unveiling. Oh well, we’re prepared to continue being vigilant

    How organized are the Dems in PW?

    Here is the good news. Black got all the votes he can get. No chance he pulls more votes from the Rs that hate him and the Is and Ds that will never vote for him. Shawn Calamari is in good shape.

  • Kevin says:

    My wife & I supported and donated to John Stirrup in the primary but will gladly support Dick Black in the general.

  • Oh I want to see the unveiling! Curses on Dick Black for keeping my buddy trapped in this hellish persona.

  • Loudoun GOPer says:

    Dick Black ran a postive campaign throughout the whole race, even though he had his reputation smeared by Stirrup. He dominated in Loudoun County, and held his own in Prince William.

    Dick will go on to beat the Democrat in November and will help all the Republican candidates below him on the ticket.

    Stirrup ran a nasty campaign and deserved to lose. In all the mail pieces he sent out, I don’t think a single one of them ever had the word Loudoun on it. He ignored Loudoun Republicans, and at the end he ignored Loudoun voters.

    By the way, Fitzsimmonds took more votes from Dick in Loudoun than he took from Stirrup in Prince William. Bob went after the hard core conservatives who would have voted overwhelmingly for Black. So for all the folks who want to blame Bob for costing the race for John, think again.

    Congrats to Dick and all the Republicans who won tonight. Now let’s take back the BoS and the State Senate!!!

  • Whitblack! says:

    How did I lose to a RINO? That damn woman probably is the reason- doesn’t she know her place is in the kitchen? I had the Black Brigade and the so-called Loudoun political expert consultants both working for me, how did this go wrong? It must be Satan.

  • BlackOut says:

    “Dick Black had his reputation smeared”?? That is the quote of the night. Stirrup didn’t do shit to change Dick Black’s reputation. It’s been smeared for a long time and there is no change. Much to the dismay of Dick Black and his supporters.

  • Loudoun GOPer says:

    You are living up to your Democrat roots, BO. The fact is that three precincts in PWC that had unbelievable turnout are the only reason this race was even close.

    Dick did a great job an has a great base of support. The sheer number of polls he had covered is testament to that.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    MC- I’ve mentioned numerous times here and certainly on NovaTownHall. Certainly this is no surprise to you but I’ll play along anyway. First, I’m not a Republican. I dont sign pledges I dint keep unlike others formerly in the party and currently in the LCRC. So I feel no obligation to walk the party line. I believe the candidates I mentioned, even if I did not support them prior to the primary, are better than the Dems. I DO NOT support any candidate who wants a mosque at ground zero and lectures America on constitutional grounds. I support freedom to worship whatever god, cult or any other animate or inanimate object anyone chooses. However, I do not vote for or support candidates who support or practice Islam. That may seem unfair or politically incorrect but until I see Muslim nations rise to support Israel and stop killing non-Muslims, I will oppose their candidacy. Would love to have heard David publicly denounce all those, apologize for the stupid letter, support Israel, etc. None of that happened. I wish him well in the freedom to practice his religion. We live in a great country. Muslim countries should be so tolerant. However, based on the reasons above, I would vote Democrat against him if I were in his district. He could have answered these questions early but when you don’t have an answer that’s hard to do. As a current law enforcement officer, I treat everyone equally under the law. I’m not above it and I respect it. I do vote and encourage others to vote based on fiscal, social and religious values. David does not make that cut. Many will disagree and that’s okay. However, it’s hard to have a legitimate conversation with bloggers who use names to hide their identities. That’s fine. I just respect people with enough courage to have a dissenting opinion as a real person.

    On a side note, the “alien” blast puts him at the same crazy level as Speakman.

  • Whitblack! says:

    At least a man won in that district, one who knows that women don’t belong in politics. The themes of theocracy are safe.

  • Wolverine says:

    LeesburgDad — I don’t think that Shawn Mitchell would be wise to go at Dick Black by overemphasizing “military veteran” — unless Shawn can somehow come up with the equivalent of 269 combat chopper missions plus a Purple Heart for ground combat with the 1st Marine Regiment, not to mention retirement at the rank of colonel with additional military engineer and JAG experience. Not quite an even matchup there, although I certainly applaud Shawn for his patriotic service.

  • Muslim Conservative says:

    Greg Ahlemann,

    “However, I do not vote for or support candidates who support or practice Islam. That may seem unfair or politically incorrect but until I see Muslim nations rise to support Israel and stop killing non-Muslims, I will oppose their candidacy”

    The rest of your post is fine. Some I agree with, others I don’t like the so-called Mosque at ground zero. But all of that is valid politics.

    The part I quote above is not PC or non-PC. It is bigotry. By definition. I am sorry. I am sure you don’t think of yourself as a bigot, but making a political choice based on any reasonable religious characteristic is bigotry. Maybe you don’t mean exactly that, so while that statement is bigotry, I will allow you to explain further before feeling certain you are a bigot.

    Listen, we have bigots in the Republican party. Sometimes when people call out the TEA party or Republicans as bigots, they throw out examples like your statement. And they are right. The good news is you are a minority, and I can rightfully defend the TEA party against charges of bigotry by saying there are always a few in every crowd. You are one of those few.

    Using religion, or race, or ethnicity as a way of making negative judgments about individuals is bigotry. By definition.

    And it is scary to me you are in law enforcement. Revealing my identity to a cop that inherently oddly thinks I automatically have some connection to terrorism would be kind of unwise since despite your protestations that it does not affect how you enforce the law, you have enough leeway and judgment in your duties to let your subconscious work against me.

    And you are a fool for expressing your bigotry publicly. Every muslim defendant faced with anything you don’t have clear evidence for, can just get their lawyer to look up your posts and try to create reasonable doubt based on your bias against Muslims.

    Why is it bias and bigotry? You are holding innocent Americans responsible for the actions of people they have no control over. Let me prove it to you.

    Look at all this:

    I am a Muslim. Devout.

    I support Israel (as does the Imam of the Ground Zero Mosque by the way). All attacks against Israel must cease.

    I absolutely abhor Islamic terrorism and consider those who engage in it to be essentially apostates directly going against the Quran.

    I was (and still am) against building the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, although I personally know the Imam there and have prayed with him. I advised him against it.

    I think honor killings are horrific.

    I celebrated my butt off the night bin Laden was killed.

    I think the treatment of women in the Muslim world is decades to centuries behind the west in equality.

    I love America.

    I am against Shariah being the law of any place, let alone the US.

    I support the constitution 100%.

    I am a Muslim. Devout.

    Would you vote for me?

    If I met EVERY SINGLE CRITERIA for being a good American and all of your other political criteria and the only thing was that I was a Muslim…

    Would you vote for me?

    If not, then you just hate Muslims for being Muslims and I am correct in assessing you a bigot. And a scary law enforcement bigot at that. I’ll make sure to drive 5 miles under the speed limit from now on. 🙂

  • Muslim Conservative says:

    By the way Greg,

    My guess is you are a really nice guy who isn’t a bigot. Just ignorant. No offense. You have probably been fed a bunch of stuff by the anti-Shariah crowd that is making a ton of money off of scaring people and exaggerating things.

    This is not a religious blog, so we would have to find another place to do it, but I could walk through with you the details of what terrorists believe versus what almost all other Muslims believe and how we differ (a great deal).

    I can show you how the anti-Shariah people have taken the version of Islam practiced by terrorists and conflated it with all of Islam and have actually AMPLIFIED the voice of terrorist ideology.

    I will never excuse terrorism or deny that their our bad guys amongst my co-religionists that we need to stamp out. But I will defend my faith against anyone who wants to say that I have much more in common with them than the word Muslim. They are not Muslims and more than that idiot in Norway was a Christian or that Hitler was a Christian. They have specifically gone AGAINST the Quran. They are an embarrassment to my faith and I feel strong hate towards these idiots. I will work until my last days to put an end to them and their hateful twisting of my faith.

    We are not all the same Greg.. It is unfair for you to hold me responsible for what idiots do elsewhere. I can’t control it. I speak out as loud as I can against it to anyone who will listen. I push for changes.

    You want to punish me for what others do who claim to have the same faith as me. Punishing the innocent is not what we do in America. We all have to be treated as individuals.

    Please think about it.

    You can be against Ramadan for so many reasons. Heck, the more I lean about the guy, the more I think he is not great. So I have no problem with most of your critique or many others who have criticized him for everything from mailers to personality. But his religion is irrelevant and off limits.

    Just so we understand, who else will you inherently never vote for?


    What else? Or is it only Muslims? Or conversely is it only your particular brand of Christianity that you would vote for?

  • Muslim Conservative says:

    Sorry, one last post. I want to be clear after my mistaken attack on Joe Budzinski. I am not saying you are a bigot. You made a bigoted statement. By definition your statement was bigoted, we will have to see if your view is more nuanced then that statement.

    If you are interested in the definition, see here:


  • Hey MC (soon, you realize, you are just going to be known as “Hammer” around here) are you talking about Imam Abdul Rauf? Because if you are, you have a serious education coming once I get my new blog up and running.

    And if you are talking about Imam Abdullah Adhami – the guy who became the face of the project when Rauf and his wife were forced to step down – well I won’t keep you in suspense on that one. He has public ties to two of the people involved with the first WTC attack. He also was forced to step down.

    Or are you talking about some new Imam?

    Or are you talking about Sharif El-Gamal? He’s actually just a waiter who suddenly came up with millions of dollars to become the “developer” of the project – not an Imam – but if you are anything like me you can’t keep these Arabs and their crazy names straight either.

    Assuming you are against criminals and fools of whatever creed, and are not one yourself, I would vote for you. But that first part needs to be clarified – no easy task, as our man David Ramadan proved beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    Speaking of whom: I will be VERY interested in seeing the final campaign finance report on the 87th district primary contest. There is a part of me that is sort of glad to wake up and realize we do still have David Ramadan to kick around some more.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    MC- this is entertaining so I’ll keep with your theme. I didn’t celebrate the killing of Bin laden. I think that brings to question your religious values. I believe just was served and applaud the brave men who conducted the effort but as a Christian why would I celebrate a man who was just sent to hell? I don’t drink beer and celebrate outside a prison when someone is put to death. You see you have no understanding of me or what I believe but make your own judgements. I don’t care what gender, race,
    Religion you are under the law. Everyone MUST be treated equally or we become what those nations rules by Islamic extrestists are. You can try to paint my voting against Islamic candidates as bigotry all you like. I don’t fear the innuendo. It is your types of threats that have caused many to speak out against things such as homosexuality because they are bigots. Sorry my friend. I’m not fearful to stand for what I believe. The speeding five over is funny. In Loudoun, you get off tickets if you donate to the Sheriff even the post knows that. Pull the stats from the LCSO, you will find that I ticket all the same. Don’t care what race, religion or whatever. I guess I’m bigger than that because of my faith. I can vote against candidates who support abortion, homosexuality etc without hating them. You and your brand of supporters would attempt to silence anyone who opposes these issues. I’m not afraid since I don’t answer to any man for my beliefs. I wish bin laden had accepted Christ before his death. I don’t want to see anyone go to hell. Let’s keep this up. You really cant understand me so you throw out crazy talk in attempts to silence me. Don’t worry. It’s effective on most people. Very few churches speak out against homosexuality, abortion or cults. Thats sad. They allow people like you to scare them from speaking from the Bible. Now which Muslim nation is tolerant of other faiths? Just curious because you know more than I do about Islam. Why don’t we see Methodist blowing themselves up in Catholic churches. Or baptist shooting Nazarenes? That’s so weird. I guess I’m just an ignorant American who doesn’t understand, huh? You will do better peddalling your intimidation tactics elsewhere. BTW, that sounds a lot like the experiences some folks have told me they had with David R. That’s just weird, as well. I’m just glad that I have the freedom, for now, to vote for or against someone who I have religious differences with and not have to worry about losing my job. I guess we should check every doctor, judge, officer, cable installer or dog walker for their religious beliefs and who and why they vote the way they do in order to keep their job. Who knows maybe they will wire your cable TV wrong!!! Good luck brother.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    Hammer- here is the link on bigotry you posted; “The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing sex, race, ethnicity, religion or spirituality, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, homelessness, various medical disorders particularly behavioral disorders and addictive disorders.”. Key word “hostile”. If voting against someone is “hostile”, then I guess that fits most of us, huh. Thanks for the clarification. I believe your definition which you found answered your own ridiculous allegations. Thanks for the help. Now that is “too legit”.

  • Muslim Conservative says:


    Let’s do this. Yes. I am talking about Rauf. I know him personally. Have debated politics with him. And have prayed with him. I understand his view COMPLETELY. I disagree with many of them. But his views are approximately the same as Nancy Pelosi. It is because he is a real heavy duty liberal leftist. Not some Muslim right wing wacko.

    I am very prepared to go through the details and even introduce him to you before you go creating a blog about someone you don’t even know.

    I am fine with you criticizing Rauf left and right. He is a typical lib and I have problems with them too. But if you paint him as some kind of supporter of terror (at least any more than any other lefty who excuses crap left and right) you would be way off base.

    I am happy to walk through this with you.

    Rauf has explicitly condemned Hamas’s terrorism and has stated he is a supporter of Israel. I would be happy to get you to the original source.

    I was against the Ground Zero mosque. Not because it is somehow wrong. It is not. It is not 9/10 of the things it is painted as. But because too many people with too little knowledge of Islam or people like Rauf would be offended and that is not worth it. We have a lot more educating to do of the general American population about Islam before such controversy. And I told this to Rauf in a personal email at the height of the controversy. It wasn’t worth it.

    Please use me as a source of info. Since you would vote for me, I know you are not a bigot and I would be happy to explain any aspect of Islam as I see it or whatever. I don’t want to take over this thread with that if it is not wanted. We can do it somewhere else if you like.

    I am very comfortable with my Islamic faith. I am also comfortable in telling people that are wrong about what it is and what we believe that they are wrong and explaining it. I am very comfortable condemning Muslims who do bad things. They are evil in some cases. But it has nothing to do with me or my religion no matter how much they say it does.

    And I am not offended by your points. I am not even offended by Greg. You need to spend time talking to a Muslim who is intelligent. Understands the religion and cultural issues and who is fine with being honest about what is wrong in the Muslim world.

  • Muslim Conservative says:


    I am unclear on your answer. If you and I were the same in EVERY RESPECT. Except I was a Muslim. Would you vote for me?

    By the way, you should know that you being open about your beliefs is not really OK in law enforcement. You are opening yourself to defense lawyers to reasonable doubt based on your biases. Your testimony will be suspect in the eyes of a jury. Only hard evidence will be good and even then, your bias will be a shadow over it.

    And I said 5 miles under.

    And finally. I ALSO am not afraid. People who are bigots in the Republican party need to be called out by fellow Republicans. I call out and condemn the terrorists in my faith. I will call out anyone who should be.

    I will not be cowed by the idea I am acting PC. If you consider negatively someones race or religion or ethnicity and act on that (voting is such an act), then you are a bigot. I am not afraid to use the word on a fellow Republican. If we don’t call you guys out, then the Dems and Libs will use you as an example and we will be hurt in our battle to win the important stuff.

    You have every right under the constitution to be a bigot. And I have every right to call you one and say what I think about it.

    Now answer my question. Exactly the same. Just muslim is the difference. Will you vote for me?

    And you didn’t answer my question of other things you wouldn’t vote for.

    And seriously dude. Every Defense lawyer in Loudoun County or wherever you work is going to use this thread if they get a muslim defendent. You are not being smart.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    Hammer- please use your own definition that YOU linked and the key word being “hostile”. If voting against someone who is completely opposed to my very core (being the Bible) is bigotry, you dont understand your definition. So the answer is will I VOTE for a Christian as opposed to a Muslim? The answer is yes. Everytime, in any election. Will I vote for a Christian over an Atheist? Everytime. Will I vote for a Christian over someone who worships a false god or is in a cult? Everytime. Is that “hostile” to VOTE for a candidate that shares my faith? Is that bigotry? Not according to your definition. I have put my own safety on the line to uphold the law and and protect Muslims who have been victims of assaults and other crimes. Anyone, including judges, who know me, know that I’m as straight a shooter as it comes. I will tell the truth even at my own expense. Hard for me to understand how you don’t get that by now. I oppose homosexuality on religious grounds but does that does not prevent me from treating them equally under the law. I have trusted my life to coworkers who are homosexuals. I would run into any fight with them or for them. However, if they were running for office would I vote for them? No.

    None of this is bigotry. It is an attempt to silence people who believe in Judeo-Christian values. Read James 4:14. This life is but a vapor. I will act with integrity. I answer to a higher authority than an unknown blogger who can’t get his own definition correct. I know that is hard for you to understand but my faith takes away the fear that would prevent me from risking my own safety to uphold the law and protect anyone.

    I appreciate your “concern” for my job. When judges start making guilt or innocence decisions based on the religious beliefs if the officer rather than the Va Code and the Constitution we (our nation) is in trouble. That would make great case law. A judge throwing out a criminal case based on nothing more than my religious beliefs and not the facts and evidence. That doesn’t happen in this country, yet. I do find your efforts more amusing than anything else. I’ve already been in the political arena so I have no interest in running for office. You should turn off MSNBC and get back to making records. You were more entertaining back then. You’re barking up the wrong tree trying to make your point with me. It might work with others but not here.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    Oh, I guess if I have a democrat defendant, non -Christian defendant or anyone else I won’t vote for hire a lawyer, the case will be dismissed? Shoot we should check where every officer gies to church, or if they don’t or what party they are with, gay or straight. Isn’t it cool that Obama was friends with known terrorists and went to a church that spewed racist, anti-Americans for two decades? Talk about scary.

  • Barbara Munsey says:

    Greg, the only point I might touch on in your profession of faith involves the difference between answering TO a higher authority, and FOR one.

    You are free to hold and profess all of your convictions and beliefs.

    If God is who I believe Him to be, no one here on earth speaks for Him. We can all speak ABOUT Him, and what we think about Him, His acts, His intentions, His motivations, but remember that dark glass is there.

    He’ll do whatever He wants, with or without our permission or in some cases even comprehension.

    As such, given our own imperfections, it makes the best case (in my opinion) for keeping all religion out of politics.

    It might just keep government a little smaller too, and reduce the amount of GDP that is wasted in litigation.

  • Muslim Conservative says:

    Let me clear that you have EVERY right to be a bigot in your heart and you have every right to act as a bigot when you vote. It is constitutional and protected under the 1st amendment. I would die to defend your right to be a bigot as I would hope you would defend my constitutional right to call you a bigot.

    “Is that “hostile” to VOTE for a candidate that shares my faith? Is that bigotry? Not according to your definition.”

    Yes. It is both hostile and bigoted. You are making a negative decision based on a characteristic that we recognize in America as being disconnected from politics and that is a hostile act. This is not Saudi Arabia where the political leaders should be of a certain religion. This is America. We are a secular nation. We allow you to vote how you wish and we will never do anything that prevents someone you would not vote for from being in office. Any office.

    By the way, what is your definition of a Christian? Usually guys like you have a limited definition of what Christians are Christian. Do you include Catholics in Christian? What about Eastern Orthodox? What about Mormons? Universalist Unitarians? How many of the founders of the country were Christians in your mind? Just curious if anyone who uses the word Christian is a Christian to you.

    While you express a lot of willingness to live your life alongside of people, you are still a bigot if you will treat them negatively (not voting). Do show you that, lets say your belief was that black people are less human and thus should be treated differently. Would it be OK to then not vote for black people?

    Or if I was Nation of Islam and believed that white people were “devils”, would it be bigoted if I would never vote for a white guy even if I was a Nation of Islam cop who protected white people equally?

    “None of this is bigotry. It is an attempt to silence people who believe in Judeo-Christian values. ”

    Not at all. I do not want to silence you. I just don’t want anyone to associate your bigotry with the Republican party. I want to engage in dialog with you.

    And I ALSO have Judeo-Christian values. As a Muslim, I follow both the Torah and Gospels and well as The Quran. I am taught that Christians and Jews are fellow People of the Book and my Brothers and Sisters. I am told very specifically by the Quran to love you and that if you are a good Christian you will go to heaven just like any Muslim.

    I consider my values to be the same as yours.

    “A judge throwing out a criminal case based on nothing more than my religious beliefs and not the facts and evidence.”

    That is not what I said. I said a defense lawyer can raise reasonable doubt about your testimony when it includes Muslims. Whether that doubt has any merit. Your act of posting your thinking about Muslims would be valid to introduce in a court when the defendant is a Muslim that is claiming you acted in a biased way in discharging your duties.

    “You should turn off MSNBC and get back to making records.”

    You are making an odd assumption about me. I am a Fox viewer. I am a VERY conservative Republican. My political beliefs are as conservative as whomever you want to name. I’m just not a bigot. I make my decisions solely on the positions of the person on the issues of the day.

    “Isn’t it cool that Obama was friends with known terrorists and went to a church that spewed racist, anti-Americans for two decades? ”

    You won’t get any argument from me on this. Obama is the worst president in my lifetime. Probably worst in US history. He should never have been elected.

    But just because Obama did something wrong doesn’t mean you should.

    By the way, I understand that you will likely not change your mind. I have debated with hardcore liberals and they won’t either. Nor would some really fundamentalist Muslims from the same ideology as bin Laden (Whabbi).

    You are all immune to facts and reason. Like the crazy climate change alarmists, you will freak out about the Muslims and all the scary horrors that can come from them (like Shariah law) when there is ZERO chance of these things happening. Facts and reason won’t change your mind.

    If anything I just don’t want media matters or some other left wing research group to come across this thread and grab more quotes from a bigoted TEA party member without them seeing that ANOTHER very strong TEA party Republican is calling you out on it. I don’t want you used as an example like the Neo Nazis that showed up to early TEA party rallies and got told off by other TEA party members. When you guys show up we need to make sure that everyone else knows that most of us don’t think like you.

    By the way, I am sure you are a nice guy.

  • Don’t worry, Hammer, I won’t take over this post. When I get my own blog going and decide to spell out the Cordoba House story (whoops, that name disappeared all of a sudden, did it not? Wonder why …) I will personally invite you to the discussion.

    How do you think most people would interpret the idea of Dawa in the heart of 9/11 America … when the other part of his book’s subtitle is “from the rubble”? Not too kindly, I imagine, since the good Imam pretty well scrubbed that version of his book away.

    There is some audio and video of your buddy Rauf and his wife Daisy that I would like to give you a shot at explaining. My guess is you know some things but not other things about Park51.

    On a related note, I am told Michael Vick is a great guy once you get to know him, and he is highly thought of up in Philly these days.

    But we won’t be discussing that any time soon, I am on vacation from blogging. You can have the last word on this topic until September or October.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    Barbara-All good points. I’m all for smaller govt at all levels.

  • Greg Ahlemann says:

    Sorry hammer, I missed your post. I’ll be quick as to not waste anymore of either of our time since I don’t expect to change anyone’s opinions here. I’m not Tea party. So use that quote so I don’t damage the Tea party. I’m not republican. I don’t worry about party affiliation. I’m sure you are conservative. All republicans are! The bigotry statements are your opinion. You could not and did not back them up in the definition you provided. I’m sure we agree on some areas and at some level. Sorry you feel my not casting my vote for someone who does not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only way to salvation makes someone a bigot. That is a tough stretch but I’m okay with you believing that about me or even calling me that. Hopefully, I am not considered tea party since according to you I would be harmful to the cause. If so, I glady denounce my tea party affiliations and you can feel free to change the secret hand shake now. Thanks for considering me a nice guy as well. Always nice to close on a positive note. Good luck with your cause, whatever that may be. I thought Mike Vick was a PETA donor now? Maybe, MC could get him for the tea party movement.

  • Greg. You are confusing your religious beliefs with your belief that only those who share your religious beliefs should hold public office. They’re not the same thing.

    By voting according to that criterion you are saying that that’s the way it should ideally be: Only Christians who share your beliefs in positions of leadership and power, and everyone who doesn’t in a second-class citizenship position. Yes, that’s hostile. It’s bigotry. If you think that what you are, whether it’s white, a doctrinal kind of Christian, heterosexual, whatever, is superior to others and entitled to special rights and privileges over those others, that’s hostile and it’s bigotry

    How you vote and what you believe are your business, but MC has nailed what you are describing perfectly. If you really believe that Christians who share your theology should have a special right to govern everyone else, why don’t you just say so instead of acting like it’s something to be ashamed of?

    And MC, it’s true. Greg really is a nice guy.

  • Just not acting so much like one right now.

  • Eric the 1/2 Troll says:

    Yes, to cast a vote soley based on one’s religion, skin color, handicap, sexual preference, etc is a bigotted act and fairly stupid as well.

  • Muslim Conservative says:


    I guess we can drop this. I think we both said our peace in this place for now. I hope we meet up someday. And by that I don’t mean when you are giving me a speeding ticket. 🙂

    And one other note. I appreciate you as a cop for doing what you do no matter the disagreement. You have a tough job. Keep doing it right like you have described. I am sure you will.

  • Muslim Conservative says:


    I look forward to the invite. This is not the place to rehash the whole Cordoba thing.

    Make sure you review their website and understand who they say they are before you write.


    And I would ask you to consider one thing while you get ready to start this blog. When you see what they say or do, is it really all that different than a Nancy Pelosi or Maxine Waters. I am against the things they say and do as well. And I have had several disagreements with Rauf as well as his people over the years.

    But if you think they have some serious connection to terrorism, you would be off base. Maybe somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody kind of thing, but not serious. And they condemn terrorism all day long (in the way any liberal can condemn anything). They encourage female led prayer and I could go on and on.

    You pegged them wrong. They may be Muslims, but they are really left wingers in the American sense and if you put what they say in that context they just sound annoying – not scary.

    I look forward to continuing this on your blog. Should be fun!

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